I hope everyone who wants to be on permanent DST experiences an eternity of the first day of spring forward, never rested again
Who makes money off of Daylight Savings Time?
I don’t know, but I know someone is making a fortune off of it somehow and I want to know who. It’s the only explanation
The real question is, how can the rich make money off of changing this? As soon as someone figures that out, I’m sure it will change.
Whoever has a business full of hourly employees that are working during 1-3am and lose an hour of pay.
ughh, I lost an hour of pay working as a security guard to this kind of thinking a while back.
“Oh, we’ll just make up for it in 6 months.”
God yes. I don’t even care which side of DST we land on. As long as we stop changing the damn clock.
Some traditions are simply stupid and should be discarded.
This is one example.
leaving work at dark is the real thing negatively effecting my health.
So go in earlier
i don’t know if i would take the option to sleep less even if i had all that freedom
My friends dad died of a heart attack like 2 days we sprang forward for daylight savings time. Apparently there is a statistical correlation with increased heart attacks during this time likely due to the lost hour of sleep. I’m sure he would have eventually died of a heart attack because of his lifestyle, but I’m quite convinced it was a part of what caused it to happen on that day.
Today has been the absolute worst. Daylight savings shift coinciding with my job becoming absolute trash and my idiotic self doing a Sunday funday yesterday.
We should just turn our clocks back to 2019.
The good old days, when the fire hose would occasionally turn off and we could breathe and participate in folksy traditions like complaining about the clocks.
It’s pretty obvious the American government doesn’t care about its citizens health. Sick citizens = more shareholder profits for their scam corporations
It screws corporations as well, anyone that has a database or deals with time in any way. I’d call it a huge hazard technilogically to willy nilly change the time for no reason.
We have been changing the time for 70+ years. Nothing about it is Willy nilly. There is a reason. The reason may invalid at this point.
This same bullshit could be said about jetlag simply moving to a different time zone has worse effects than a single hour shift, yet many people do it 10s if not hundreds of times a year.
It’s so stupid to argue about this whole thing from a health perspective and using that as if its some kind of disease.
So stupid
If there were two days a year that 300 million people took a flight that gave them all jetlag simultaneously, you’d probably tell them to stop though, right?
I have no idea what you mean.
Who is telling who to stop what?
I’m trying to relate the daylight savings time change back to your example of jetlag.
I’m suggesting that, in a scenario where everyone in the US is compelled to take a plane ride that gives them all one hour’s worth of jetlag (instead of changing the clocks by one hour), you’d probably take issue with that. It’s an attempt to add some extra perspective and get you to think about your claim that it’s stupid to argue from a health perspective, and how shallow that line is thinking is.
It doesn’t matter if it’s stupid or not, it’s reasonable to want the practice to stop.
There’s a lot of things that I don’t like about Arizona but the abolishment of moving to and from DST has been such a great thing to have.
Oh my state passed a law abolishing it but the federal government stopped it. You want to know why? You want to know the stupid reason why the federal government won’t abolish daylight savings? Because polling indicates that half of the people want it gone forever and everybody else wants it there forever.
They literally can’t decide whether to always have the clock one way or the other, so we get to split the difference. I don’t fucking care. Just pick one and stick with it. Everybody has electric lights anyway, it’s the 21st century, we need to move on from this 1700s bullshit.
Counterpoint: the people who want it there forever should just be told that’s what we’re doing, they’ll be back to licking windows before they realize the difference.
I’d settle for the half hour
Exactly, most of us don’t care but there are jobs where it matters, so go with what’s best for them. Construction maybe? Either way, we don’t need majority opinion here.
Then change the hours of the jobs, not the clocks.
That fucks with everything else though, eg childcare.
Yeah i’m not trusting American anything at this moment.
Guilt by association is how children think
Try harder.
I don’t care which way they go. Hell, split the difference and move us to a 30 minute offset if you can’t make up your minds. Just stop changing the bloody clocks twice a year. Please!
Split the time zones in half and offset them by 45-60 minutes.
No! Split the difference the other way! Make us jump two hours! Show us all how detrimental daylight savings is! Burn motherfucking greenwich to the ground! Or at least let me get some sleep!
If only there was a standard.
This is the way.
Step one: agree that fucking with the clocks is really stupid and codify it into law
Step two: start arguing about which time zone is the “right one”
If you try to do both at the same time, step two prevents both
EXACTLY what I always say.
I want us to go in the direction Canada is going with that. It should be the same time in Washington and Oregon that it is in BC
Canada uses metric time though, I think. So, that wouldn’t work.
Nah they’re only half metricated. They use metric kilometers, but imperial hours, this creates the uniquely Canadian variant of kph
Us law doesn’t allow for that. Washington and oreagon could go year round standard time anytime they feel like it.
Well that was a non article.
Committing to standard time has health benefits and allows us to end the biannual tug of war between our biological and alarm clocks,” said AMA Trustee Alexander Ding, M.D., M.A, MBA.
So are they saying committing to standard time, or simply committing to a single time?
If they are saying Standard is better that Daylight Savings, then they are complete morons. And it isnt because I like one over the other. The fact is IT DOESNT FUCKING MATTER. Just pick one.
Daylight is constantly changing, depending on what latitude you are in. In the northern hemisphere millions of people will gain over an hour of daylight this month alone. Your rhythms are effected by people fucking with the clock, and that is it.
Standard is better than advanced, which is better than switching.
Daylight Saving Time just needs to be completely eradicated, it makes no sense in the modern day. The problem is that you have this disagreement over “which” time should be the default, either standard time or daylight time (which Canada/the US spend more of the year in than not).
IMO it should just be standard time, emphasis on the word “standard”. If you want more daylight hours in the evening for events and such, just start things an hour earlier.
I’m sure everyone’s bosses will be accommodating
It’s so they can make more money more people die because of time changes, anyway.
Abolish bosses
It’s also dependent on where you live. Someone living on the easternmost part of a time zone is going to tend to want DST over standard as compared to someone living on the westernmost part. I live in the easternmost part of the Eastern US time zone and I’d pick DST if I had the choice.
East Coast, standard time please.
“East Coast” doesn’t provide enough information. If you look at a map of America and draw a straight line south from the western end of Massachusetts, it doesn’t really touch another state at all, just the ocean. What really needs to happen is that the Northeast needs to be in a different time zone, and then we stick to standard time. But as it is now, it really sucks being in EST in the winter in the northeast, which is why so many of us prefer permanent DST, when given the choice without the option of being in a different time zone.
Split the time zones in half and offset them by an hour.
4:30 sunrise in June just feels wrong to me.
Arizona is used to it. When I drove through in July I swear the sun es already high at 4
You get used it it. Somehow the majority of the world where DST isn’t observed has no problem with an earlier sunrise. Makes it easier to be a “morning” person, if anything.
Makes it easier to be a “morning” person, if anything.
Morning people already get enough perks. Why do I want to help those judgemental pricks?
Because if you want to help them, you give them DST, so the sun can rise an hour into their day. DST literally delays the progress of morning and makes more of it, it makes you get up an hour earlier in the morning.
Tbf, 5:00 sunset on standard time is not ideal for me either. But a lot more acceptable than having to suddenly adjust sleep because capitalists want to make more money.
The more I think about it, 8 am sunrise if we did permanent DST in late Dec/early January would be shit too. We should just split the difference, lol
I’m okay with that!
In Seattle, during the summer solstice, sunrise is @ 4:30am with full daylight by 4:50.
Starting things an hour earlier is cutting into sleep time.
<insert almost live sun skit>
Permanent DST would be so stupid.
What is “noon” or “solar noon” under DST? Solar noon is supposed to be the time when the sun is at its peak. AM and PM come from ante meridiem and post meridiem, which are basically “before the sun’s peak” and “after the sun’s peak”. But, under DST the peak is at approx 1pm. So, will saying “I’ll meet you at noon” still mean 12pm? Probably, but then “solar noon” will be 1pm but “noon” will be 12am?
If the whole reason behind considering permanent DST that they think the 9-5 schedule of office life is impossible to change? This just reminds me of bad software projects where office politics and middle manager interference meant that rather than fixing the root cause, it was easier just to add tech debt.
Nobody schedules things around solar noon you psycho.
Old timey western shootouts. You shoot each other at high noon not waning noon.
DST is best T.
This just reminds me of bad software projects where office politics and middle manager interference meant that rather than fixing the root cause, it was easier just to add tech debt.
That’s why we have been continuing to change clocks twice a year, because apparently that’s easier than changing the time children go to school.
If you’re only argument is “the sun should be directly up at noon” then we are going to need a lot more time zones.
Let’s have a lot more time zones then.
No, let’s do away with all time zones, everyone’s on GMT. Noon stops meaning 12:00 and just means when the sun is directly up in your time zone.
If that means for you noon is 2AM, you start work at 11PM and are off at 7AM, usually going to bed at 1PM when it’s well and dark out so be it. You don’t have to change your clock when you travel, places just say “Local noon is 8PM”.
No, let’s do away with all currency, everyone’s on gold. $1 stops meaning 100 cents and just means whatever the hell it does in the area you’re in.
Ask the railroads how not having time zones turned out.
Yeah, arguing definitions vs what’s actually practical is a new one for me in the DST discussion. Just goes to show you that people would rather appear right than do what’s useful.
I’m not only argument.
I also prefer solar noon, but standard time is close enough, and I already said I’m fine with splitting the difference.
Fun fact: in the mid '70s the US attempted to go to full year daylight savings time. It was so hated by everyone that we switched back to switching our clocks after very few years
Because a single news story about a single child being hit by a car on the walk to school was blown out of proportion and played on everyone’s fears. Kids don’t walk to school anymore.
Kids don’t walk to school anymore
What am I passing when I drive home every afternoon? Geese?
You are passing what’s called “an anecdotal argument”.
OP didn’t back up their assertion with data. They don’t see kids; I do see kids. It’s all anecdotal.
Quick searching shows a CDC survey from 2017 estimating that a little over 15% of American kids walk to school. More recent data would require more time to find than I have right now, but even if it’s as low as 1 in 10 now, that’s still not nothing.
I’m interested to know what the percentage was throughout time.
Well if it is in the afternoon then you are seeing them walk home from school.
my wife and i only have one car because y’know poverty and i drive her to and from work once or twice a week because it’s nice. we’re going to start calling any pedestrian children Geese now because of you I love it.
Go into detail about what the problems were and why everyone hated it.
People with school aged children were upset that their children were leaving for school in the dark.
People had more accidents in the morning (but accidents in the afternoon and evening hours decreased, especially pedestrian fatalities.
They didn’t even try it out for a prolonged period of time and a lot of that had to do with the Watergate scandal and the Nixon presidency.
Also the health benefits of switching to Standard time and doing away with DST would work with permanent DST too. The major health problems that are caused by the current model have to do with altering the bodies internal clock, and you get the benefits of not having to change regardless of whether we choose permant Standard time or permanent DST.
For reference purposes, car accidents spike significantly after DST ends, not just when it starts.
I think the main issue with their attempt in the 70’s is that they didn’t try to change the hours of school and work to make things more workable. We didn’t do that because it would have forced major industries to shift things and that seemed like too much work.
This would make things safer in general and fix sleep deprevation and other sleep related maladies in the vast majority of people who aren’t morning people.
And having more natural light during the waking hours decreases the amount of electricity used, can decrease heating and cooling bills, etc.
People complain about the idea (either moving permanent to standard time or morning permanently to DST) literally based on vibes. Nobody seems to give it a chance with actual changes to make it work for any length of time.
I’m also going to point out that a lot of the problem full stop is that Americans just do not have significant amounts of free time.
I wasn’t actually alive at the time, thanks for those details! I didn’t know why they hated it, just that they must have to have switched back so fast.
Yeah, I also wasn’t alive (I know most of it from my parents and the internet, but I’ve also had this conversation on the other place before.
I get the reasons why people like one or the other. I wake up at 3 am for work 5 days a week and I work 10 hour days so my feelings on the matter will be skewed no matter what, but it always seems like a majority of people want to go to standard DST when it’s a hypothetical and there’s not a good general consensus for why they switch back if it is tried.
I believe Mexico (might be another South American country), did have it and they swapped back due to the “health benefits” but it seems like a lot of the studies around day lights savings time as a whole are relying on supposition and don’t have a long term study for the actual effects.
Some studies show more car accidents, some show less, some show nuance. some studies show better or more economical use of utilities like water and rlectro, some show the opposite, or that there is no change.
Some studies show health benefits but those studies assume we don’t change sleeping schedules and so on to accommodate/ take advantage of more light, and often the health detriments are based on swapping back and forth twice a year.
Most of this comment I made after reading more articles on it rather than going off memory from the last time I had this conversation, and so what I say here may not necessarily match up with what’s in the original comment.
If I remember I’ll try to go back up and change that comment to better reflect the new info.
People have serious health effects because of DST, too
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/7-things-to-know-about-daylight-saving-time
You should read more into this. The detrimental health effects aren’t linked to going permantly to DST, but from switching back and forth between DST and standard time.
It seems to be worse to spring forward, is the point. It doesn’t align with the most prevalent circadian rhythm in humans, although there are exceptions. I guess those people are just sol regardless, which is regrettable.
Non-starter, according to DST sickos they need that extra hour of daylight to be at a higher number on the clock because of all the stuff they do. As if they weren’t sitting on their asses on the couch 99% of the time either way.
I don’t need the sun to come up at 4:30 in the morning during the summer, and I am a pretty skilled runner. I’m just not a morning person.
People rarely have their bleary eyed shit together before 9am anyway, best save the sun time for off hours.
Hospital and factory workers first shift usually starts at 6:00-7:00.
To work indoors.
Then don’t be. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s completely arbitrary when you get up.
I wish I got to set the schedule to everything in my life
You could just make the numbers be whatever you want if that’s what you need to feel good about the time.
Again, I don’t get to set my own schedule, they’re determined by these numbers that while arbitrary, are rigid. Drop a kid off an hour late to school every day and have fun explaining that to a truancy officer, or tell your boss you’re leaving work an hour early to catch some sunlight and see how that goes.
So drop them off at the same time, but just call it 8 instead of 7. Or is it more important to force everyone else to be on the same arbitrary number as you?
They could just say school and business hour is at 8 instead of 9 from an arbitrary date and have the same effect.
Nah, it’s about outside time. Not being in my garden, on my porch, or just outside in general because it’s dark at 5pm is depressing.
Then get up an hour earlier. I personally can’t relate to feeling depressed because it’s dark out, like a bird having a blanket put over its cage, but I do enjoy the longer, cooler evenings with less UV.
No. Mornings feel like being on the wrong side of the sun.
Just change your circadian rhythms to match morning people’s. Also do cocaine
I’d love an alarm clock that only wakes you once the sun has crossed the meridian, like how navies used to only change the calendar day once they’d turned the glass and struck the bell at high noon.
I don’t know, last time I had a barbecue at 5am no one showed up.
