Good. Eat shit.
You guys had your chance. Instead you shoved giant fucking trucks and SUVs down our throats while telling us we didn’t want good, small, electric cars. I hope you all choke to death.
I… I was trying to disagree. But you’re making it damn difficult.
Maybe they can eat a dick.
No, don’t reward bad behavior. They can eat Trumps unwashed asshole.
As an American…
Say it louder for those in the back.
sadly, “too big to fail, lets bail em out on public $”
Good. It’ll just hasten the collapse.
China’s got an overcapacity of affordable cars people want, and the US will have an overcapacity of unaffordable cars nobody wants, and we can see which is the better problem to have.
Unfortunately, the US’s cars will become write-offs for the companies, the rich will suffer nothing, and they’ll become rusting landfill waste like Atari 2600 copies of ET.
Government subsidized is not the same thing as affordable. As soon as they are embedded, prices will go up.
Just look at Korean manufacturers in US. Some Hyundais/Kias are more expensive than Toyotas. They used to be a great cheap alternative.
Difference is Koreans actually build high quality cars and Chinese build quality is debatable.
I have to say though, the faster Tesla fucking burns, the better. Nazi trash can go fuck himself.
Difference is Koreans actually build high quality cars and Chinese build quality is debatable.
If the Kias I’ve driven are any indication… No they don’t.
You also do realize that the Chinese make good stuff too right? It’s not just the random brands you see on Temu and Amazon. It’s the same brands you recognize already. Every Apple device for the past 25+ years is Chinese. Every component, every step of manufacturing, every human touch along the way. They’re only designed in California.
China just has an excess of manufacturing capability, because they make everything for everyone. Hell, a lot of “counterfeit” and “knock-off” merchandise rolled off the same exact factory line as the name brand. The factories continue running manufacturing lines after hours to produce excess that gets sold on the grey market, and they also send the stuff that fails quality testing to the grey market.
They manufacture so much because it’s cheap to manufacture there and that comes at some costs like putting very little value on people and their labor.
Also, designed in California means more than you think for established brands that have to follow American or, usually stricter, California laws.
Labor cost is a part of course… But the bigger thing is that the entire manufacturing process from near-raw materials, through individual component manufacturing, and final product assembly are all located within just a few miles of each other. Things aren’t being shipped across the country multiple times through the process. When manufacturing transportation cost is essentially zero, there is a lot of inherent cost and time savings.
I think the bigger things are the nearly slave labor and the temporary government subsidies and the general manufacturing capability and the jobs.
That said, I sure would like cheap, ubiquitous electric vehicles.
They manufacture so much because it’s cheap to manufacture there and that comes at some costs like putting very little value on people and their labor.
Then we should have prioritized worker treatment in our trade deals. We naturally didn’t because we not only place no value on workers or their labor, but were also willing to forfeit the race to the bottom.
China making bad quality stuff is an outdated stereotype. I hate to sound like I’m a China fanboy because I’m not, but it’s really undebatable; they’re the future now.
It isn’t. Of course established brands make quality stuff; their brand depends on it. It’s the US/Canada/Europe level of qa expectation and local laws that are driving the quality.
And cars are not only expensive as fuck, but also are an absolute necessity in most of US/Canada. I wouldn’t blame anyone for getting a fully loaded $30k brand new electric car over a similarly priced “budget” Kia. Might as well take advantage of the fact that China is subsidizing the other $20k.
There’s almost nothing that can break in an electric car over typical lease period, but I wouldn’t want to keep it past the warranty or get into a serious accident in it.
The subsidies for domestic buyers in China are almost entirely phased out, and never existed for exports. This is just companies trying to avoid competition so they can sell overpriced crap to a captive audience, same way the US did when japanese cars outclassed them.
Any country that wants to match China’s prices is free to use central planning to keep inputs like batteries, aluminum, and an educated population cheaper than any competitors who don’t.
BYDs are awesome. You’ll see.
They’re… fine? All the chinese cars I’ve been in try to position themselves as luxury cars with tons of fancy accessories, which are all potential points of failure. In 15 years, a regular drink holder will still be basically the same, but you stick a motor in there and a bunch of moving parts so it opens up and looks fancy, and theres no way it will feel the same in 15 years.
They do feel nice to ride in tho. And the maintaince must be less because 80% of taxis I saw were electric.
Also, with China being an evil horrible dictatorship, this definitely isn’t a moral upgrade either.
The U.S has no moral high ground to stand on here, especially under current leadership.
Maybe American autodealers should’ve made cheaper cars and not relied on monopoly-like status and government protections manipulating the market.
Also, maybe American’s shouldn’t have been such cunts to their neighbours. I mean, they throw a big Trump diaper at Canada and Mexico, start demanding all the car companies shut down plants and shit, wtf did they expect Canada and Mexico to do exactly?
Our national neighbors to the north have already caved, setting off alarm bells in some U.S. operations, and now NADA is hoping to amplify that warning.
Fuck off you Yankee cunts. Go fuck yourself through both ears with a rusty chainsaw.
“Caved”!? You mean “are purchasing higher quality vehicles for lower prices” means “caving” these days?
Seriously. Fuck all the way off.
Apparently “capitalism” and “market pressure” only work when it’s in the USA’s favour? The USA should be proud of Canada for acting exactly like capitalists! They are opening the market and letting the best suited and best priced item win. Isn’t that the whole point of the system?
I’m trying, but my government keeps moving the goalposts on how far I need to fuck off. It’s beginning to get exhausting.
I’m afraid it will have to be a lot more fucking off……Until he’s impeached, convicted and removed from power and the entire administration prosecuted, convicted, and imprisoned for their crimes. SCROTUS expanded DHS abolished, ICE disbanded. Billionaires wealth redistributed. Reparations made for slavery though a truth and reconciliation process. Trans, Black, brown people, immigrants and queer people reintegrated and welcomed loudly back into society. And the US stops funding Palestine genocide. THAT’s when you can stop fucking off. So, it will be awhile.
Nope. Still wouldn’t trust them even if they did all this. We have seen how quick this happened. It could happen again. Why: The fact it’s being tolerated, and it’s unlikely change will occur. They will just try and reverse a bit. Greed killed America
It takes hundreds of years to grow a forest, and just one match to burn it down.
Its not bad for consumers.
It’s only bad for the country because it’s owned by the corporations.
It is bad for greedy corporations.
Begins now, the war on greed.
It’s bad for the country to lose all manufacturing capability.
Arguably could be better to have access to slave labor, cheap, green cars though.
The car dealer lobby can go fuck themselves. How much cheaper would cars be already with no middle man using high pressure sales tactics
Not to mention the lobbying against robust transit options, and for car-centric city design. The personal automobile is marketed as freedom but in reality it is an expensive infrastructure ball & chain
Yeah Tesla and Rivian skipped the dealership model, but their pricing isn’t any lower. Arguably higher, especially long term when you include repair costs.
Tesla also runs much higher margins than competitors. They could be cheaper, but they choose not to be.
After a quick search…
Ford’s gross margins are about 8%.
GM is about 7%.
Kia is about 8%.
Toyota is about 9%.
Tesla is around 25-30%.
Rivian is around 2% it looks like (but they also build the Amazon fleet, which seems to not be included in the numbers I could find quickly).
Note that the legacy auto numbers are what the main company profits, not dealerships. The newer companies can pocket that directly.A primary reason is newer companies like Tesla and Rivian are still building their manufacturing capabilities. That additional profit is going towards that expansion.
Tesla’s margins are nowhere near 30%. They technically were there for like a single quarter. Even without all the insane accounting tricks they use, they’re around 10% now, and it’s likely that’s a lie.
You’re right, that was from a few years ago…
Their gross margin was 20%, up from 16% last year, and automotive margins actually increased from 15% to 18%.
lol if the US dealer system is part of what dies in this era of shit that we’re in, I’m calling that as a fucking HUGE silver lining.
I thought Tesla was going to change things a little bit but it turns out they were only interested in fucking kids
I’ve driven electric for over a decade. Never had a Tesla. So many people do not understand that’s possible.
The dealership system is garbage. Let the battle begin.
Say what you will, but I’ll take BYD over Tesla any day.
My “fear” with the Tesla system is customer service after the sale. Usually a local dealer will have to consider repeat sale and after-market service and repair. Building a good customer relation is key to that. Alternative is am anonymous underpaid call center “drone” in another country or dead email drops that never gets answered. Or worse some kind of AI chat feature on a glossy professional web page.
My issue with all electric cars is the development rate and the risk of platforms not being supported for an extended time. How long will software be serviced? Right now I do not dare own an electric car older than five years as there are so many bugs due to rushed development
Well. In Germany we say “Der Markt regelt das”. Translated: economy speaks for itself.
Like it or Not. China made it. They will also flood Europe/EU soon. I’m not mad, when they can, they should. This is our beloved capitalism.
One German politician warned car companies that they need to make affordable EV. They didn’t listen and still don’t.
The problem is China subsidizing their cars to suffocate the European manufacturers. When all the European manufactures are closed or sold to China, you’ll see the real prices.
EDIT: Also, soon? They are already here.
Yes, it’s bad for you. Selling new cars for over 60K on average has been very good for you.
Why are dealers complaining? Could they not simply deal those Chinese EVs?
I’d expect US automakers to complain, but unrightfully so, because their products are inferior.
A- 10,000 dollar car
B- 50,000 dollar car
Intrest is 5-15% (depending on credit score)
6 years loan
Interest paid over loan:
5% A- $1,595 B- $7,977
15% A- $5,224 B- $26,122
If the dealership sells a 50k car they can get 6.5k-21k more money than if they sell a 10k car.
They want to sell you the most expensive car they can
So even if they could sell you the “cheap” Chinese EVs they would make less profit
This is just one reason. Sales margin is another. When you’re a Ford dealership and get special treatment from Ford you have higher profit margins. If you just flip a Chinese EV with no special treatment you have lower margins.
If there was a solid 10k car available less people would buy the 50k car (average cost of a new car today)
Inexpensive cars on the US market is not good for dealerships in anyway
dealerships are too scummy and a little racist to POC potential buyers to be allowed to exist anyways, i dont think anyone would lose any sleep if they were to disappear suddenly.
Why are dealers complaining? Could they not simply deal those Chinese EVs?
One word: tariffs. Sure, they could theoretically still sell Chinese EVs, but with the tariff nonsense the buyer would have to pay more.
Senator Bernie Moreno is a car dealer. It’s weird to open the article with his position on this and not mention that.
Fuck car dealers. The entire dealer system has spent most of a century earning worse than this.
European fllet and personal buyers are starting to turn away from US cars. Not impressively, but a little.
An rock slide starts with just but a pebble.
Europeans are purchasing American cars? Why? We aren’t even purchasing American cars in the US.
Because maga stupidity is spreading. Here’s a big fuckin stupid American truck in Norway, it can barely fit down the fuckin roads in Lofoten but sure enough, dipshits need to stroke their ego with their oversized gender affirming trucks.
Good. No one should buy American trash.
its also overpriced, and the handles trying temulate tesla is a very big turnoff, as well as a safety issues.
I don’t disagree about our cars being overpriced, so fair point there.
I used to own a Tesla Model 3 (I got rid of it for reasons you can probably guess), though, and the one thing everyone - including me at the time - universally disliked was the handles, inside and out. For the outside half, there were several times I struggled to get in during cold weather. For the inside I never had a problem with them but I understand how they could be difficult (my wife printed stickers to make ours more clear).
I know the outside ones are supposedly more aerodynamic; neither are as bad as how some people represent them … But everyone hated them.
I suspect you were trying to troll, in which case I almost want to apologize for interfering but can’t bring myself to, but if you’re being earnest I feel I should offer some input.
LOL…bad for consumers? Really…evolution has never been about survival of the fittest…
