I’ve just Irish goodbyed so many times when I’ve been tired or just annoyed with people and offer absolutely no explanation afterwards. Just go out for some air and fuck off.
Eh, I understand where you’re coming from, but the reality is that not everyone is going to be willing to tell a group of peers “no.” We want to teach our kids that it’s okay to do so, and we want to instill enough self-confidence in them to do it, but peer pressure is real and it’s powerful, especially to young people.
Offering an alternative way for them to get out of an uncomfortable situation doesn’t seem like a bad idea to me. We can work on building boundary-setting as a skill while also acknowledging that it takes time to build it.
And I see your point as well, but I think this kind of stuff can end up making kids unable to remove themselves from situations they don’t like. Whcih begs the question- what happens when dad isn’t available? That kid won’t know what to do and may find themselves in a situation that they don’t want to be in or worse- dangerous.
This type of thing weakens people.
I’m not suggesting kids have their feet held to the fire, but there’s some thing they need to learn as they grow up, and self-advocacy is an important one. Dad can’t bail you out of all you problems.
my dad didn’t bail me out of shit and i ended up not being able to speak up or advocate for myself about anything. since i never had a safe out i ended up desensitized to uncomfortable situations, spending the most formative decade of my life working out the suicidal ideation i had developed after getting bullied into an injury that i lacked the self-advocacy to speak up about. i sure would’ve appreciated a hand.
“weakens people” reads to me like the extremely flawed mouse utopia experiment that i still hear thrown around as a deflection to the reduction of suffering. fuck off with that bullshit.
The first part of learning to remove yourself from bad situations is learning to know when it’s time to bail.
And that’s a lot easier to make the call on when you have an actual way to make the exit.
Even as adults, nobody says “This situation sucks, you are all bad people, I don’t like it and I’m leaving.” No. We say “Aight well I’m working tomorrow so I gotta go” or any other number of convenient excuses we can create for ourselves as autonomous adults.
Tweens and young teens don’t have that autonomy. You’re at the party until it ends or you decide to leave - and deciding to leave looks suspicious as fuck when you already confirmed you were free, and you don’t have any adult responsibilities which could pull you away.
Plus, you probably don’t have your own transport. Leaving may require cooperation from someone who drives, so the very act of leaving is materially so much harder than as an adult, where you can literally just walk out.
I mean, yeah… That’s exactly what people are trying to tell you. Because saying, “This type of thing weakens people” and citing your own personal experience as evidence sure doesn’t sound like you’re open to “alternate approaches.”
there’s a time and a place to develop self-sufficiency, but having a foundation where one was supported in their decisions before that helps tremendously
There is nothing wrong with using both, and we have no idea from the post what other life lessons this father is teaching their kids.
Depending on the scenario, such as a situation where herd mentality has already taken over, it might make sense to just quietly dismiss yourself or have some escape plan that does not include trying to confront the herd; that can be dangerous.
Hypothetical: What if they were about to do something legally dubious. That kid may paint a target on themselves if they start acting like a “snitch.”
To your point, I agree we should be teaching folks how to stand up for themselves and how to set boundaries all that, but thats not always the way to do it (and again we have no clue what else this obviously cool / responsible father is doing).
Absolutely not true that is some toxic thought to have.
Do kids not ride bikes without their parents? Nobody drives without their parents? Nobody does anything they’re taught without the ones who taught them?
What actually happens is they learn they can just leave, that pressure is invisible and they grow the muscles and knowledge of what it looks like to slip out of a situation. The next time they’re in it, they will have experience on how it felt to leave the first time. It’s reinforcement.
As somebody who suffered a lot with social anxiety when I was younger I would have loved this option. I knew I could leave whenever I could but all the hand shakes and see-you-laters, etc interaction were so difficult for me.
Instead I had a really uncomfortable time “advocating for myself”. Which one one hand, like you say, did teach me a lot. But it wore me down a lot and often I would be the last person to leave just because I didn’t have the energy/mindset at the time. A good mixture of both would have been ideal.
Wholesome? Or just teaching your kid how not to advocate for themselves. It’s okay to bail on a situation you don’t like.
I’ve just Irish goodbyed so many times when I’ve been tired or just annoyed with people and offer absolutely no explanation afterwards. Just go out for some air and fuck off.
Yep. This is one of the many ways to bail. And nothing wrong with it.
Eh, I understand where you’re coming from, but the reality is that not everyone is going to be willing to tell a group of peers “no.” We want to teach our kids that it’s okay to do so, and we want to instill enough self-confidence in them to do it, but peer pressure is real and it’s powerful, especially to young people.
Offering an alternative way for them to get out of an uncomfortable situation doesn’t seem like a bad idea to me. We can work on building boundary-setting as a skill while also acknowledging that it takes time to build it.
And I see your point as well, but I think this kind of stuff can end up making kids unable to remove themselves from situations they don’t like. Whcih begs the question- what happens when dad isn’t available? That kid won’t know what to do and may find themselves in a situation that they don’t want to be in or worse- dangerous.
This type of thing weakens people.
I’m not suggesting kids have their feet held to the fire, but there’s some thing they need to learn as they grow up, and self-advocacy is an important one. Dad can’t bail you out of all you problems.
my dad didn’t bail me out of shit and i ended up not being able to speak up or advocate for myself about anything. since i never had a safe out i ended up desensitized to uncomfortable situations, spending the most formative decade of my life working out the suicidal ideation i had developed after getting bullied into an injury that i lacked the self-advocacy to speak up about. i sure would’ve appreciated a hand.
“weakens people” reads to me like the extremely flawed mouse utopia experiment that i still hear thrown around as a deflection to the reduction of suffering. fuck off with that bullshit.
Exactly.
The first part of learning to remove yourself from bad situations is learning to know when it’s time to bail.
And that’s a lot easier to make the call on when you have an actual way to make the exit.
Even as adults, nobody says “This situation sucks, you are all bad people, I don’t like it and I’m leaving.” No. We say “Aight well I’m working tomorrow so I gotta go” or any other number of convenient excuses we can create for ourselves as autonomous adults.
Tweens and young teens don’t have that autonomy. You’re at the party until it ends or you decide to leave - and deciding to leave looks suspicious as fuck when you already confirmed you were free, and you don’t have any adult responsibilities which could pull you away.
Plus, you probably don’t have your own transport. Leaving may require cooperation from someone who drives, so the very act of leaving is materially so much harder than as an adult, where you can literally just walk out.
So yeah. Having a functional exit is a huge help.
My parents didn’t bail me out of shit, and I have no issues advocating for myself.
Ah, classic.
“This is the way I was raised and I turned out alright, so it must be the only correct way to parent.”
LMAO…. No more clasic than:
“My parent bailed me out of everything and I turned out alright, so it must be the only correct way to parent”
And
“My parent never bailed me out of anything and now I’m a psychotic mess! It’s a horrible way to parent!”
It’s almost like we’re all different or something! Which would totally explain the alternate approaches to the idea! Fascinating!
I mean, yeah… That’s exactly what people are trying to tell you. Because saying, “This type of thing weakens people” and citing your own personal experience as evidence sure doesn’t sound like you’re open to “alternate approaches.”
I said CAN weaken people. Ffs…. Nuance man.
there’s a time and a place to develop self-sufficiency, but having a foundation where one was supported in their decisions before that helps tremendously
the time will come, there’s no need to rush it
There is nothing wrong with using both, and we have no idea from the post what other life lessons this father is teaching their kids.
Depending on the scenario, such as a situation where herd mentality has already taken over, it might make sense to just quietly dismiss yourself or have some escape plan that does not include trying to confront the herd; that can be dangerous.
Hypothetical: What if they were about to do something legally dubious. That kid may paint a target on themselves if they start acting like a “snitch.”
To your point, I agree we should be teaching folks how to stand up for themselves and how to set boundaries all that, but thats not always the way to do it (and again we have no clue what else this obviously cool / responsible father is doing).
Absolutely not true that is some toxic thought to have.
Do kids not ride bikes without their parents? Nobody drives without their parents? Nobody does anything they’re taught without the ones who taught them?
What actually happens is they learn they can just leave, that pressure is invisible and they grow the muscles and knowledge of what it looks like to slip out of a situation. The next time they’re in it, they will have experience on how it felt to leave the first time. It’s reinforcement.
As somebody who suffered a lot with social anxiety when I was younger I would have loved this option. I knew I could leave whenever I could but all the hand shakes and see-you-laters, etc interaction were so difficult for me.
Instead I had a really uncomfortable time “advocating for myself”. Which one one hand, like you say, did teach me a lot. But it wore me down a lot and often I would be the last person to leave just because I didn’t have the energy/mindset at the time. A good mixture of both would have been ideal.