And invest your point as well, but I think this kind of stuff ends up making kids unable to remove themselves from situations they don’t like. Whcih begs the question- what happens when dad isn’t available? That kid won’t know what to do and may find themselves in a situation that they don’t want to be in or worse- dangerous.
This type of thing weakens people.
I’m not suggesting kids have their feet held to the fire, but there’s some thing they need to learn as they grow up, and self-advocacy is an important one. Dad can’t bail you out of all you problems.
there’s a time and a place to develop self-sufficiency, but having a foundation where one was supported in their decisions before that helps tremendously
my dad didn’t bail me out of shit and i ended up not being able to speak up or advocate for myself about anything. since i never had a safe out i ended up desensitized to uncomfortable situations, spending the most formative decade of my life working out the suicidal ideation i had developed after getting bullied into an injury that i lacked the self-advocacy to speak up about. i sure would’ve appreciated a hand.
“weakens people” reads to me like the extremely flawed mouse utopia experiment that i still hear thrown around as a deflection to the reduction of suffering. fuck off with that bullshit.
The first part of learning to remove yourself from bad situations is learning to know when it’s time to bail.
And that’s a lot easier to make the call on when you have an actual way to make the exit.
Even as adults, nobody says “This situation sucks, you are all bad people, I don’t like it and I’m leaving.” No. We say “Aight well I’m working tomorrow so I gotta go” or any other number of convenient excuses we can create for ourselves as autonomous adults.
Tweens and young teens don’t have that autonomy. You’re at the party until it ends or you decide to leave - and deciding to leave looks suspicious as fuck when you already confirmed you were free, and you don’t have any adult responsibilities which could pull you away.
Plus, you probably don’t have your own transport. Leaving may require cooperation from someone who drives, so the very act of leaving is materially so much harder than as an adult, where you can literally just walk out.
Absolutely not true that is some toxic thought to have.
Do kids not ride bikes without their parents? Nobody drives without their parents? Nobody does anything they’re taught without the ones who taught them?
What actually happens is they learn they can just leave, that pressure is invisible and they grow the muscles and knowledge of what it looks like to slip out of a situation. The next time they’re in it, they will have experience on how it felt to leave the first time. It’s reinforcement.
There is nothing wrong with using both, and we have no idea from the post what other life lessons this father is teaching their kids.
Depending on the scenario, such as a situation where herd mentality has already taken over, it might make sense to just quietly dismiss yourself or have some escape plan that does not include trying to confront the herd; that can be dangerous.
Hypothetical: What if they were about to do something legally dubious. That kid may paint a target on themselves if they start acting like a “snitch.”
To your point, I agree we should be teaching folks how to stand up for themselves and how to set boundaries all that, but thats not always the way to do it (and again we have no clue what else this obviously cool / responsible father is doing).
And invest your point as well, but I think this kind of stuff ends up making kids unable to remove themselves from situations they don’t like. Whcih begs the question- what happens when dad isn’t available? That kid won’t know what to do and may find themselves in a situation that they don’t want to be in or worse- dangerous.
This type of thing weakens people.
I’m not suggesting kids have their feet held to the fire, but there’s some thing they need to learn as they grow up, and self-advocacy is an important one. Dad can’t bail you out of all you problems.
there’s a time and a place to develop self-sufficiency, but having a foundation where one was supported in their decisions before that helps tremendously
the time will come, there’s no need to rush it
my dad didn’t bail me out of shit and i ended up not being able to speak up or advocate for myself about anything. since i never had a safe out i ended up desensitized to uncomfortable situations, spending the most formative decade of my life working out the suicidal ideation i had developed after getting bullied into an injury that i lacked the self-advocacy to speak up about. i sure would’ve appreciated a hand.
“weakens people” reads to me like the extremely flawed mouse utopia experiment that i still hear thrown around as a deflection to the reduction of suffering. fuck off with that bullshit.
Exactly.
The first part of learning to remove yourself from bad situations is learning to know when it’s time to bail.
And that’s a lot easier to make the call on when you have an actual way to make the exit.
Even as adults, nobody says “This situation sucks, you are all bad people, I don’t like it and I’m leaving.” No. We say “Aight well I’m working tomorrow so I gotta go” or any other number of convenient excuses we can create for ourselves as autonomous adults.
Tweens and young teens don’t have that autonomy. You’re at the party until it ends or you decide to leave - and deciding to leave looks suspicious as fuck when you already confirmed you were free, and you don’t have any adult responsibilities which could pull you away.
Plus, you probably don’t have your own transport. Leaving may require cooperation from someone who drives, so the very act of leaving is materially so much harder than as an adult, where you can literally just walk out.
So yeah. Having a functional exit is a huge help.
My parents didn’t bail me out of shit, and I have no issues advocating for myself.
Absolutely not true that is some toxic thought to have.
Do kids not ride bikes without their parents? Nobody drives without their parents? Nobody does anything they’re taught without the ones who taught them?
What actually happens is they learn they can just leave, that pressure is invisible and they grow the muscles and knowledge of what it looks like to slip out of a situation. The next time they’re in it, they will have experience on how it felt to leave the first time. It’s reinforcement.
There is nothing wrong with using both, and we have no idea from the post what other life lessons this father is teaching their kids.
Depending on the scenario, such as a situation where herd mentality has already taken over, it might make sense to just quietly dismiss yourself or have some escape plan that does not include trying to confront the herd; that can be dangerous.
Hypothetical: What if they were about to do something legally dubious. That kid may paint a target on themselves if they start acting like a “snitch.”
To your point, I agree we should be teaching folks how to stand up for themselves and how to set boundaries all that, but thats not always the way to do it (and again we have no clue what else this obviously cool / responsible father is doing).