I explained it to my sons when they were teens as such: just because in the past men were privililged to have more of the well paying employment than women and some males (rich, white, educated) had the best of those jobs, doesn’t mean that today’s men are unfairly disadvantaged when other men (of colour) and women (all) are also able to compete for those jobs. Blaming women and immigrants because you now have to compete with everyone else for employment isn’t their fault, it is the fault of business and governments who have allowed the wealth imbalance that makes working for a living wage unobtainable for a growing portion of the population. The solution isn’t being anti any group of working people. The solution is taking back control from the corporations and the 1%.
No no no don’t you get it? Even though women experienced all of that, some of them can still refuse sex and it’s made a lot of men really like, lonely :(
If they can refuse sex though everything is equal now, because men would never physically overpower or use lies and drugs to get around a refusal for sex.
I really don’t like that we’re setting this up as team men vs team women. I’m a man yet I’m on team woman? Wtf?
[sigh] here we go again…
Rules…
**1.**Women only… trans women are women, and transphobic or gender critical talk isn’t allowed. Anyone under the trans umbrella (e.g. non-binary, bigender, agender) is free to decide whether a women’s community is a good fit for them.
I am a man, and I did all of that.
… read the rules, oh my god
You’ve already been reminded of the rules here.
Ooh I’m sure this thread will only contain comments by people allowed to post here and that everyone will be respectful about the facts of history
I’m so fucking tired, I swear
Oh you sweet summer child, I bless your innocence.
Zero sum jags think my gain is their loss.
We’re all just souls / minds having a human experience. It would be cool if one day we could all relax a little about our wrapper. I think when people start uploading their minds or in whichever way existing primarily in a reality where changing ones form is effortless we will better understand what was true all along.
We’ll probably see what we’ve known all along, that people treat you differently depending on how you present. Which is what this text is about.
Are we really arguing the null hypothesis on a meme?
But it would be something as easy to change as breathing. Arguably for hairless apes birthed from nature we’ve gone much further than I would have imagined had I been introduced to humans for the first time a hundred thousand years ago.
Sidebar, it’s always interesting what triggers that response of what seems like a natural exploration in a thread and what is considered too off topic. I’ve found it is associated with how well the statement agrees or brings conflict to the primary statement of a post more so than the legitimacy of the comment or how measurably on or off topic it is.
What.
If for example we had sufficient VR or uploaded consciousness or otherwise sufficient technology we could change form as simply as we breath.
I am surprised humans have even gotten to this point, we have a lot of baggage from evolution we’re still carrying around.
The more a comment agrees with the sentiment of a post the less likely someone is to say it is off topic. The less in agreement a comment is the more likely it is someone will say it is off topic and that’s more of an indicator than if it was actually off topic.
We will still have favorite aspects of presentation and someone will always have a problem with a part of your outward appearance that you consider non-negotiable.
I never said it was off-topic, I implied the sentiment was tone-deaf.
I disagree, but we’re both welcome to our own opinions.
But now men have policed each other’s gender expression so tightly that they are incapable of emotionally connecting, leading to them feeling really lonely. What are women doing to fix this unacceptable situation!?
Obligatory /s. Maybe I’m just too autistic, but I read it literally the first time
Thank you, yes it was sarcasm.
One group is fighting for their freedom but members of the other group complain when they succeed.
Belle Hicks said it right, though, feminism is for everyone. A system that fucks over one group isn’t going to treat anyone else fairly, either. More men should be fighting on our side, as much for themselves as for us.
Strongly agree, feminism is for the benefit of all genders. The freedom for men to express themselves without being compared to women as an insult as an example.
We are stronger when we have empathy and kindness upheld as ideals instead of seen as feminine and thus weak.
You know, if it weren’t for specifically you, velma, I would have instance-blocked sh.itjust.works ages ago. So many shit takes from that single instance.
I have to admit that I stay on this instance for mostly superficial reasons - the name is witty and I like the UI lol
I should use my blahaj account more often again ;)
Be happy you’re holding sh.itjust.works up all by your lonesome. That’s how awesome you are! 🤣
Hey I’m here too! ;P
Oh, right! I completely forgot you were on the shit Canadian instance too!
I apologize profusely!
I’m in good company then :)
Lowkey, I don’t view it as men vs. women at all. It’s really just the bourgeoisie pitting us against each other by playing favourites.
tl;dr: Workers of the world, unite!
Edit: I made an additional statement, which was sexist against men. I have removed it. My appologies.
Conditioning is really powerful. I hear your anger, but please don’t make statements like “most men are disgusting monsters” again here
My appologies. I shan’t do it again.
It’s fine we all post without thinking sometimes 😊
Yeah… I’m pretty guilty of that. Posting/commenting on the Threadiverse is more fun than sleeping :3
Posting without thinking is a time-honored internet tradition
That is true, that is true.
Should I edit/censor my comment?
Thats very kind and would be appreciated
It’s the least I can do.
❤️ 💙 💜
I’m all for a safe space for women but this reeks of sexism. Except the good ones, is a common trope among bigots who want to generalize without sounding like bigots.
I think perhaps my opinions have shifted to fit in with my sisters and mother. They say things like that they hate all men, and say “it’s not personal” to my dad and brother-in-law.
I appologise for being sexist. I shall attempt to course-correct.
Thanks for listening and owning up. I know it’s hard to break a habit when casual sexism becomes your norm.
I honestly have a tendency to avoid taking responsibility and acknowledging when I’m wrong, but I’m trying to do better. Feel free to correct/confront me in the future.
I appreciate it. As someone who fought some hard rejection sensitivity issues, it feels way better to own up than to double down when I know I’m wrong.
Oh. I looked it up, and that sounds like me. I wonder if it’s connected to my social anxiety.
Also, yeah, owning up does feel better than digging my heels in.
I learned it’s part of ADHD, which I have. Naming it has helped me acknowledge when it’s happening. Since anxiety goes hand in hand with conditions like ADHD, it might be related.
Haha, this is why my previous manager told me I never would have been hired if she was there first, because she doesn’t hire men.
Oh wait my voice isn’t allowed in this area because I should exclusively identify with and associate with “my kind”
Gotta follow the rules, but also most of our ideas of men and women are just social constructs that have been confabulated into existence and we aren’t allowed to change those or identify/relate/communicate out of whichever bounding has been provided as for our specific feature group.
Gotta love how I couldn’t get people to respect the danger the heritage foundation types pose to women through local and federal systemic change in the usa, because thinking make genial mutilation should also be illegal somehow means I hate women and think men are more important than women, and I should be banned and nobody has to think about the systemic problems outside of the preferences of our extremely narrow eco-niche. And actually seeking communication and cooperation by improving how we communicate our conceptualize the social constructs is just me mansplaining.
The best mansplaining on the subject actually comes from Mahault Alberracin and her modern framing frameworks and formalism,
So when my comment gets deleted because I was born into the wrong body. I hope someone else brings up her work.
But we need to be able to scale intent and action in ways that don’t enable heritage foundation types while causing friction and inability to resolve between progressive movements.
But if we just shape feminism into neoliberal form patriarchy we don’t have to think about any of this.
You are all appreciated, even if my shell which I’ve never cared for still disqualifies me from participation because that’s the shape we want our socializing to take I guess.
So you know the rules. You know your posting here is against the rules. And you decided to post here anyway to whine about the rules and about how your posting here is against them, daring us, in effect, to delete your post.
And somehow this makes you a good person.
You then proceed to make your masculine self the main character in a women’s group, whining about your “genital mutilation”.
And somehow this makes you a good person and those who want to have a space to themselves bad.
Yes, you’re very obviously an “ally”.
You utter fucking berk.
You sound very unhappy about being a man. You don’t have to be one if you don’t want to. I didn’t want to, and so now I’m not.
!feminism@lemmy.world is rather active and we can make it more so if you truly want to discuss these types of subjects with all genders. Maybe someone else has a better community suggestion.
None of the community members here told you those things or said you were mansplaining. Please do not paint us all with the same brush.
Please respect that women and femme and non-binary people want a space to discuss with each other in a safe and supportive community.
maybe i’ve over-corrected for this sub, there has just been a large gathering of similar subs with similar rules, which have banned me for similar comments, often for not realizing the content i’d stumble on in my feed was being strictly sex-gated.
very pleasant surprise if that’s not totally the case here, and i would see that as a very positive aspect of this subreddit despite the intended purpose of the sub, although i feel like “keep respectful for” and “only allowed to post” is a very important distinction.
i also come from a bit of the frustration of living in an overly gendered world where it has never ‘worked’ for me in either the things provided to me, or the associated assumptions that have been used to overwrite my intended messages for a good couple decades of attempting to interact with the important problems of our collective world.
the top comment of “Ooh I’m sure this thread will only contain comments by people allowed to post here” is the same kind of response i get when dealing with actual life problems caused by people similarly defining me, excluding me, or directly assaulting me by something as stupid as sex presentation.
often for reasons that my closer friends know are anti-thetical to my actual beliefs and actions.
it’s important that voices of each group are made available so that we can all navigate the complex reality that we share, and one voice overpowering others will disable the benefit we can achieve collectively. it’s just unfortunate that many people socialize that to mean "we must actively exclude voices of people who fit this categorization that is only made important by the unhealthy social constructs developed through overly simplistic historical ideas that were socially affirmed into agreed reality. this also takes different forms like the bounding of the electromagnetic spectrum and how colours are perceived.
in the end, progressive groups being able to collectively coordinate and benefit from their plurality rather than drawing fine boundaries that make cooperation and coordination impossible is the main thing i’ve been advocating for the past couple decades.
that and we all need to fight parasitic groups of rich assholes that want to make the world their playground,
notably the heritage foundation and types. really neat that we seem to be progressing enough that i may not need to be as defensive, or embittered by PMs of graphic violence towards male genitalia purely for suggesting my body doesn’t define me, and that i would prefer my words be seen externally.
the real situations i’ve experienced locally of people punching up by punching down has made it very difficult to keep fighting for progressive standards to be understood and developed. and i mean that literally. i’m tired of being assaulted because some people have simplified “fighting the patriarchy” to such a degree that they can’t separate these things.
hopefully this message can be seen as inclusive, as i’d assume anyone who has dealt with people oversimplifying them to a socialized gender identity can relate with the frustration, especially when including actual violence.
to further frame this in context of OP’s post, rich and opportunistic people tend to set those rules, and while they are made to benefit some men, they are definitely not good for most men, and usually the “gender war” refers to the weird divisive split between progressives wanting to deal with gendered issues in different areas, and some reason even trying to blanket ban something like genital mutilation of babies in the USA is then framed as “anti-women” because the fact that FGM tends to be much worse, even looking in the other direction is so bad that mountains of accusations need to be blindly thrown at anyone in any way associated with such a movement.
also see: groups with a lot of money like the heritage foundation have intentionally pushed and flooded this kind of behaviour to make progressives turn defensive and fight each-other over stupid refusal to listen to each-other, while the fascist takeover is rolled out on an anti-progressive red carpet.
it’s very important progressive groups connect and find common ground, and modern social sciences are a really good foundation of that effort.
i just get banned in half of the places i try to talk about it, because that community is “not for” me. and this has been true for decades. also i’m tired of being assaulted by strangers because assholes are opportunistic and act when they know they won’t face accountability.
(thank you to all of the people putting energy into cooperative progressive efforts)
AND DESPITE KNOWING THAT WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS EXPLICITLY AGAINST THE RULES YOU PERSIST IN DOING IT!
Dude, read the room and FUCK RIGHT THE FUCK OFF!
Please, I’m begging you, read the comment sections of several posts here. You’ll be able to see how polite and respectful we are to men who accidentally post. We don’t extend warm reminders to men who leave sexist or dismissive or otherwise rude comments.
I’d rather you look for yourself than make assumptions and comment based on those assumptions.
while i’m receiving replies like
"AND DESPITE KNOWING THAT WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS EXPLICITLY AGAINST THE RULES YOU PERSIST IN DOING IT!
Dude, read the room and FUCK RIGHT THE FUCK OFF!"
i’d be willing to learn if you could show me where i was being anything like sexist or dismissive.
some conflicting messages haha.
You’re literally arguing with no one.
I’m uneasy with this commonly seen argument here. There is a class war, but it’s not like the gender war disappears on the working class side when workers unite.
It’s only men vs women insofar as men uphold and reinforce the patriarchy like in the post.
People more eloquent than myself can probably elaborate on what I’m saying better than my admittedly brief comment here.
it’s not like the gender war disappears on the working class side when workers unite
Indeed the working class can be some of the most socially regressive people on the planet when it comes to racial and gender issues.
That makes sense. I think you’re correct. Touché.
Hey thanks for that. As Lady Butterfly said, conditioning can be strong.
I think the recent news about César Chavez really drives this point home.
Oh gosh. I’d not heard of him. That’s awful.
Also, I apologise for my behaviour. I don’t want to be bigoted against anyone, and I’ll work on it.
We’re all human and thus flawed, but also we can grow 💕
Honestly I’d really like to believe it’s not most men that would do fucked up shit. Men are problematic because most don’t speak up when they see bad shit, but I still think it’s a minority that are actually doing the bad shit. I do think that not speaking up is conditioning that can be broken though.
At least that’s me trying to live in a glass-half-full world.
I would like to believe the same. It seems more likely than all men being extremely dangerous individuals whose composure might snap at any moment.
Anyways, cheers to half-full glasses!
Idk look around the world, even places practically untouched by capitalism, tribal villages, remote rural communities, isolated traditional societies… women are almost always second class citizens at best and subjugated livestock or even worse even in some places were women giving birth will not be provided care with out her
ownerhusband present and it’s illegal to practice midwifery but men are not allowed to practice medicine on women, even animal get medical care that isn’t discriminatory based on their sex. I fear this is just human nature or at least post agriculture human behaviorI think it might be a natural thing. In the animal world, males are usually the boss, which is due to generally being larger and stronger.
I think it could be trained out of people—meaning both men and women. I’d like to think we’re cabable of resisting nature through education.
In the animal world, males are usually the boss, which is due to generally being larger and stronger
This is why I love spiders. The females are big, beautiful, and full of color, then they eat the males once they have fulfilled their reproductive duty.
Humans should be more like spiders and eat men (not really, I’m just being silly 😊)
Mantises do the same, I think.
I think bugs are the opposite of animals in this regard, with the females being bigger and stronger.
yea but some women say “men are trash” on social media and that’s just as bad 😢 /s
Women suck!
Oh shit is that not ok to say? Because I was under the impression that grouping a bunch of people together and blaming all of them for shit is what racists do, and those guys are all right!
I got called a misandrist for saying “not all men, but too damn many”. This has made me doubt claims of misandry. While I’m sure it exists, I’m no longer sure of it’s previlince.
Misandry doesn’t exist the same way misogyny does for sure. Honestly this meme is the perfect explanation why it doesn’t exist. But yeah, you’re right!
Some get their feelings hurt, some die. Close enough. /s
Well you know the saying, women’s concerns are rape, murder, abuse, men worry about getting laughed at.
/s ffs
I had a man—an “ally”, no less; the kind of man who wore a “pussy hat” to a protest on behalf of women!—tell me in all seriousness that, and I quote directly, “respect is like oxygen for men”.
The aggravating thing is that on blank face they’re correct - but they never see the unspoken corollary of “And no one else ever has this need”
Like fuck me you’re not special mate you’re just human
Yeah, the implication that women don’t need respect like men do was really fucking gross.
If he’d even said something like “men need respect like oxygen, and the way men express and expect respect is different from the way women expect and express respect causes friction” it might have been defensible. But he didn’t.
Was mentioning to partner and their response was “Sounds like he desperately needs external validation. Tell him to stop being a needy little shit”
Damn right. And adult women rarely murder adult men… the murder rate is wildly disproportionate.
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Women didn’t force men in Ukraine to stay and be fed into the meat grinder. This is a false equivalence.
Men will be shooting each other in the face while whining “why won’t women stop this??”
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Read what @velma@sh.itjust.works again, this time for comprehension.
And while reading for comprehension READ THE FUCKING RULES OF THE FUCKING GROUP YOU’RE FUCKING RESPONDING TO YOU FUCKING WHINY PRICK!
Oohh you must have him tagged as something real fun.
Tagged? We can tag people?
I must needs know more so I may go on a rampage of tagging people. I presume you mean with spray paint? Please?
At least on the Voyager app, maybe instance dependent (?), but you can add a tag to any user that you’d like.
Like I can click your username, tap the buttons on the top right, and ‘Edit Tag’ to say ‘fabulous member of womensstuff’ that will show up next to your name when I see your comments.
Oh, I just use the default skin. :(
I didn’t say anything to the contrary.
Have you had a chance to read the rules here yet?
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Dude. Maybe my posting the rules wasn’t clear enough for you.
SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU WHINY PRICK!
Your behavior is why feminism keeps losing. Shut up, for feminism’s sake.
Men arent welcome in this community, it’s not on the community to continue to be sweet and appeasing in the face of repeated rule breaking and disrespect.
Why are you not telling the men breaking the rules and imposing themselves on us to shut up? Why should we shut up in our own community that we have built?
The community you’ve built pushes supporters away. If that’s your goal, then good job
If the “supporters” can’t even tolerate a single space for women to talk, then they’re not so much “supporters” as they are, you know, the status quo.
Fuck off and stop posting against the rules.
Only when men flagrantly break the rules here. It’s easy to see when men do so accidentally and politely back out.
Men don’t get to come in here and drop sexist comments and then cry when we object.
Your behaviour is why men think they can do whatever they like regardless of the rules. Shut up for your own sake.
First off, women did not make that decision. It was the decision of men to bar young men from leaving Ukraine, so this is not relevant to the discussion. If you want to complain about anyone for this, complain about the men in power; it doesn’t make sense to blame women for this.
Second off, you should really read the rules of the community here. The kind of hateful false equivalence you’ve shown indicates to me that you are more than likely a man. The very first rule of this community is that it is women only (and nonbinary folks that feel it is appropriate for them to participate in a women’s space). So please pack up and go elsewhere, as this is meant to be a safe space for women without the intervention of men.
Please read the rules of the group you’re responding to. Here. Let me help you with that:
Why not?
Because the issue wasn’t who it was done to, but that it was done at all
Why not what?
We don’t discriminate against any groups here.
???
