[Long rant]
My brother has two twin autistic boys.
I came back from the UK to Canada a few times in the past to see family and when I spent time with them … I came really close to getting them to talk back to me. My brother would always come home later and then say: “gooo gooo gaga”. I was like, “what the hell are you doing? I’m almost able to get them to repeat what I say”. He was like, “oh it’s fine, they’ll pick it up”
Years passed. I came back to move in with my brother and when the kids were 4, almost 5. Guess what? They’re not toilet trained and they have speech issues. They can say colours, numbers, and shapes and can sometimes repeat things but they have no concept of sentences and stuff. My mother’s helping them take care of the kids but she’s addicted to her phone and speaks mainly in Chinese and didn’t really understand the purpose of getting the kids to learn incrementally. Their actual mother and father just keep saying “they’ll pick it up”. My brother actually said: “oh, it’s okay, you know why I’m not worried. Grade 1 teachers can still change them”. Their mother was like: “they’re autistic! I’ll change them as long as they need!”
The fury it sent through me while I was there was insane. I’m not a parent but while I was living there, I got them connected with my behavioural therapist friend and did so many speech exercises with them. I remember specifically knowing they loved to be picked up. Every time I picked them up, I said “up” and worked all their phrases from there. It was one of the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. Especially when their parents come home and my mother would just undo a lot of my progress because they would just do things for them instead of letting them do it themselves. Toilet training these kids was no picnic either … I had to hold one of them down onto the portable toilet thing when he was constipated to half understand the concept. Did I do anything the best way? Most certainly not. However, these two kids can talk now and they were toilet trained after a few months.
I’ve never felt so drained and so angry at my brother and his wife for being so absolutely inept.
They say parenting comes with no guidebook, and that’s true…but OTOH, maybe common sense isn’t so common either.
I’m not here to judge anyone: I have two ASD kids and am ASD myself. That shit is hard.
One of the good things I did as a parent is enrolled my kids in a year of Montessori based pre-school. They teach the kids to clean, cook, use keys, use locks, look at people when talking, put beads on a string, brush teeth and hair, make cups of tea, use scissors etc. I know Montessori is seen as a sort of hippy-dippy thing but my experience has been the exact opposite. Don’t get me wrong, I still had to take my eldest to Speech Pathology but they (the school) laid a good foundation.
One thing to mention that might help you: ASD kids have whack bodily perception. They literally have to be taught that “feeling full bladder” = “need to go pee”. It seems insane but they just don’t…notice it, until too late. The don’t understand the body sensation.
Lot’s weird little body quirks like this.
Anyway, good luck to you. I always think to myself “be kind; everyone one is fucked up one way or another”
So wait, parenting means more than ejaculating a bunch of cells into a uterus? And I have to get off my phone and hand the kids something besides cans of Coke and bags of Oreos?
teachers estimated 26 per cent of the children in their reception class this year were having frequent toilet mishaps
That sounds almost unbelieveably high.
It’s true. I work in education and we have 1st graders we are potty training. It’s usually because both parents are working two jobs and are Gen z. Kids rasing kids in a society were birth rates are plummeting. Each year the drop in numbers of pre school and kindergarten students is alarming. (we had to layoff 2 pre school and 2 kindergarten teachers last year. We only have 2 of each left in a school designed for 8 each.) I live in a state that has its head above water. Imagine what it’s like in Alabama or Mississippi. Places with no running water. I’d be shocked if the US even had records of poor rural town births because they don’t have any hospitals out there. Probably the first time those states realize a life was born is when that parent tries enrolling their kid.
Edit: wanted to add that the talking birth rate impacts young new parents because the support network that would have helped 30 years ago is gone. On every level. Young parents could at least lean on other parents for advice and help. When you are literally the only parents in your neighborhood it’s tough. Baby isles in the grocery store are smaller than ever, with companies that make baby products need to charge more because their customers base is shrinking. (why a profit based economies is a bad idea.) What does a parent do when their local school has zero prep school teachers and kinder because the school can’t afford to hire a teacher for just 5 students.
As a parent trying to get a kid potty trained, modern diapers are also a problem. They are too good at their job, so there is less negative consequences and it takes them longer to identify the feelings of needing to go.
Also, it’s very difficult to get daycare to stick it out with you and once a child is in the 3-4 range, it becomes exponentially more difficult to modify bathroom habits. They will literally shit themselves just because you ask them to use a toilet at this stage.
When our kid had just turned 3, we had started making really solid progress finally. He was good with pee, starting to (slowly) get the hang of pooping, and would actually request to go to the bathroom before bedtime if he felt he needed to. Then daycare basically said they wouldn’t deal with poopy training underwear anymore and bring him back with diapers, and all progress was lost. Now, nearly a year later, it feels like we’re still clawing our way back to where we were.
It’s because your daycare staff is under paid, under trained, and under supported. We treat child care workers like trash in America. I have teacher friends ready to go to manual labor over teaching another day.
Wait! We are seeing an increase of parents skipping protecting their child from deadly diseases. Why are “shocked” that they don’t care for their kids either?
People are mostly doing it because diapers are better than they were in the past.
That is in a way correct. Washing cloth diapers was incredibly annoying and single use diapers have been a big relief. Before that, the need/urge/desire to get rid of diapers was a big factor in deciding when to approach potty training.
But maybe it is a good thing that kids aren’t being rushed anymore and are given the time they need to understand their bodies. Child led potty training is an incredible privilege and I can absolutely understand that 50 years ago this would have taken the strongest nerves to practice.
People really seem to think that children are just born with the knowledge inside of them and they will just figure it out cause we as adults know it.
This has been getting worse and worse for decades now.
All just pushing the next generation to figure it out on their own later and expecting more still from them. We are teaching people to be a machine more than a human.People really seem to think that children are just born with the knowledge inside of them and they will just figure it out cause we as adults know it.
In regards to potty training, that is actually quite the way it is. There is a reason you cannot teach a newborn to be potty trained and a reason why the vast majority of kids age 5 do not use diapers.
The “training” part of potty training - as in, sitting down, pooping/peeing, wiping, flushing, washing your hands - is a social necessity. This should absolutely be taught. But the feeling of “oh, something’s coming, I gotta go” is absolutely something that kids do figure out by themselves and cannot figure out before the right time has come. This is a neurological thing and rushing it won’t do any good and won’t work. You can help guide your child to listen to their bodies once the time comes. But at the end of the day, it is their body and their connection to what is happening in there. You can condition them to use the potty every time after X Y Z happens (after you get up, after you eat before we leave the house,…), but this is not the same as learning to feel their bladder, how full it is, how much time is left before they really gotta go, and so on. And the latter is so much more important - which is why there has been a push for later potty training.
This is to say - it is a good thing that potty training takes place later now as it is now much more child led and child focused. Not out of a societal need to function. As others have pointed out, this article is confusing because it doesn’t clearly state what school/age they are talking about and what “potty trained” entails. It makes you think that elementary school children get their shitty diapers changed. Are they “not potty trained” because they fail to wipe correctly or wash their hands? Do they do their business into diapers? Are we talking poop or pee? Are we talking more frequent accidents? And especially, what age group are we talking about exactly?
Like, believe me, even in a climate where kids are allowed to do this at their own pace, our kindergarten (ages 3-6/7) is not full with kids that have diapers on, especially past 4. Have you seen the reaction of a baby vs toddler vs preschooler when they poop their pants, even in diapers? A baby doesn’t realize it, a toddler might actually enjoy the warmth. A preschooler usually hates the feeling and starts to cry and wants a change immediately. When they are ready, they are ready, they don’t want to run around dirty or wet.
And last but not least - I assume we are talking about kids under 6, i.e. under elementary school age. In that case: What does it matter if a kid is potty trained at 33 or 39 months? We are making a big deal out of a couple of months or maybe a year, while this year might actually be incredibly beneficial for the kids in their bodily autonomy and body feel.
As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, it is now the kindergartens that are advocating for this. While they of course prefer kids to be potty trained there is so much more awareness and understanding from the teachers’ side; every kid has their own pace and is an individual and should lead their own way. And they absolutely do in 99% of the cases.
Framing “late” potty training as some kind of societal failure is simplifying a very complex issue in a grotesque way. In some ways, it is a very big achievement in children’s rights.
My school district, starting this year, began including children down to age 3 for preschool. Prior, age 4 was the cutoff (by late September or October, can’t recall), and now it’s just a calendar year younger. Some of those three-year-olds are not potty trained. Prior to this year, it was mandatory that incoming students needed to be potty trained. I’d say three is the age where average kids begin potty training. My daughter started at two; my son was late three into four. Both went to preschool potty trained.
All this being said, I didn’t see ages specifically mentioned in the article. I’m curious if UK school districts are offering similar grants for younger kids. Because that’s what it was here in NJ: school got more money from the state to take younger kids.
Average 3 years when they start potty training? Over here preschool starts at two and a half and kids are generally expected to be potty trained (accidents do still happen of course).
Germany here. It is now not expected that your kid is fully potty trained when they start kindergarten at 3 years old anymore - at least not in the majority of kindergartens (“it would be nice, but it is not obligatory”). The reason is that there is a push to not start potty training before the kid shows signs of readiness. And this is often not the case before 2.5-3 years. Not in the majority of cases but some kids don’t have the necessary body feel (which is a neurological development) to do successful potty training.
Now, we also have to discuss how we define “potty training”. Over here, it is normal to keep a potty and offer to try it, but you don’t take away a toddler’s diaper and let it sit on a potty until stuff comes out. So I am talking about child led potty training where they take the incentive, but are offered the access regularly and obviously are then shown how to wipe and wash their hands.
If I remember correctly, research shows that earlier potty training takes longer until the kid is considered potty trained (i.e. few to no accidents during the daytime). Another reason for the push to do it later - besides bodily autonomy - is that potty training that is done too early often uses tactics such as putting the kid on the potty “just in case”, which is now considered not ideal, since the kid doesn’t learn to feel when the bladder is actually full.
Moreover, kids often change from early daycare to kindergarten at age 3, which is considered a major life event that often leads to a regression in potty training. Our kid was almost completely potty trained at 3 years old but when she started kindergarten (without having been to early daycare) she regressed immensely due to the stress and it took a couple of months until she was fully potty trained again. However, it was her teachers who advocated not to rush her and give her the time she needs and who reassured us that this is very normal, and I am grateful they did.
I find the article a bit misleading because it doesn’t clarify what age the kids are and what school we are talking about. Or how exactly they define potty training. It makes it sound like a quarter of seven year olds who are in first grade shit in their diapers. I mean, maybe they do, but it is unclear what they are talking about. Most kids will, at a certain age, absolutely lose it if they happen to poop or pee their pants (even in diapers). Apart from one autistic child I really don’t know any kid that regularly does its business in diapers at age 5. There is also a sense of societal norms and wanting to belong - also something that the teachers told us before we started kindergarten - so usually the diapers go away because the kids don’t want to wear them anymore. They want to be big.
