The comments here on this Lemmy post can serve as a perfect demonstration for the reason behind men turning right-wing. Any comment trying to point out some specific aspect of life where men are experiencing more hardships is immediately shut off and getting told these experiences and concerns are invalid.
There is a limit to how much “fuck you” one can hear before going “well, fuck you too”.
There’s an art to diplomacy, and sometimes it involves omitting truths or carefully framing it, even when dealing with awful people, and compromising or postponing grand strategic goals for short-term gains.
I feel like many young men are being alienated by people pissed off with the status quo that fail at or refuse to engage with them diplomatically. I get it, I don’t want to compromise or negotiate on basic human rights and dignity either. I don’t want to wait for things to get better. I don’t want to coddle the sensitive pride of chauvinistic dickheads.
But reactionary grift thrives on the (negative) reaction to being told your way of life, your habits, your norms are bad and wrong, and particularly to the (exaggerated) impression that you are bad and wrong for reasons beyond you control (like being born with a dick) or that you are irrelevant.
We need to find a way to communicate issues more diplomatically and include these men in the conversation and solution rather than making them “the other”.
And we also need to reign in the hardcore misandrists who genuinely do want to turn this into us vs. them.
Thanks for putting it in words, people from the left at core want to help but they attack anyone who is in close proximity to them and appear to be the part of the statues queue, like " if not privileged why privileged shaped"
The whole situation becomes like:
“hi, I have problems with my job…”
“But you are a man, you are working for a multi-billion dollar company founded by men, who are part of oppression and putting the world in a dangerous place…”
“But I am a server at McDonald…”
“Is anything factually wrong with what I said… No right, see you are part of the problem”
The above example is over simplification but that’s how many of the conversations have felt when I tried to explain my position.
we know how do it. bernie sanders, aoc, and mandani show us the way.
the issue is their ‘way’ is wholesome and isn’t based on self-righteous rage and self-importance, so people don’t like it and it freaks them out. the issue is so many people use politics as nothing more than a drug to fuel their self righteous superiority complex, where they are ‘right’ and everyone else is ‘wrong’ based purely on the beliefs, not any objective reality or facts.
No one has mentioned anything yet what the right offers to help men as a solution.
They only said going right as a ‘fuck you too’ threat towards the left.
You have a choice. Be the change or make threats.
If you got a flat tire you can pull over to the side of the road and either:
1: repair it
or
2: punch a hole into the rest of the tires and bitterly yell at all the other cars for having working tires.
If the second was your choice, you can’t pretend for a moment you got involved legitimately to fix a tire. It is a choice. It is your choice. Not everyone else. Not the left. Yours.
The right offers community for men and a traditional pathway to life milestones that are a core part of happiness for men. This pathway of work hard, go to church, meet a women from church, have kids is very appealing for a lot of men.
They offer structure, discipline and motivation for young men to better themselves.
And take any chance you get to troll online to threaten hostility to the left. That is after all why you’re here in this thread on this topic. It isn’t offering much in the way of dealing with feelings and handling challenges of life.
The whole thing hinges on a fragile balance on a very specific mindset that isn’t sustainable without following a very specific path.
Easy to melt a snowflake under that kind of pressure.
And throwing away homosexual men. Their safety isn’t even considered in your one little check box box when they face some of the biggest challenges among men.
Not really convincing me that men’s health is the forefront of your interest here.
they listen and acknowledge their problems. instead of telling men to shut up and fuck off and die.
the fact you think the left having to acknowledge men as legitimate human beings who suffer is sacriled5igous is precisely the problem. the right treats them like people, and isn’t ‘ashamed’ to ask for their support
Nah dude, i am just not an ideologue. I don’t view politics as one side good, other side bad. I don’t treat politics as if it’s religion where we must shun and kill the non-believers.
And sadly that is a perspective so called ‘open minded tolerant’ leftists cannot abide. the possibility that maybe they are just as wrong and stupid as the people they hate because their politics is governed by belief and tribalism above all else. and how totally alienating that is the average person goes right over their heads, because they are true believers who think belief it and of itself justified all their shitty actions and words towards non-believers.
"Im totally not an idealogue, I’m totally open minded, thats why I can safely say that liberals are evilbad and republicans are flawless and love and respect everyone equally, despite 15 mount everests of facts and proof showing otherwise. Also its totally the democrats that want to kill non-believers, its totally not my pure, loving republican party that wants to do that. "
i never said any of that, but i’m glad you can’t take any criticsm of the leftism without devolving it into good vs evil. which is precisely why young men are anti-left. they don’t want to be told how evil they are. nobody does.
It has nothing to do with the fact that there are entire youtube and facebook groups engineered for and dedicated to funneling the vulneralbe into the right wing hate machine, and how every one of them has family members concerned and saying they changed and became so hateful after starting to listen to whatever right wing predator dejure they picked up.
No no, its the evil left, for being super evil with their calling out republican nonsense, propaganda, and lies.
Truly, Republicans are the greatest, most oppressed victims on earth. Even Jesus weeps for the unfair cruelty of their plight.
The comments here on this Lemmy post can serve as a perfect demonstration for the reason behind men turning right-wing. Any comment trying to point out some specific aspect of life where men are experiencing more hardships is immediately shut off and getting told these experiences and concerns are invalid.
There is a limit to how much “fuck you” one can hear before going “well, fuck you too”.
There’s an art to diplomacy, and sometimes it involves omitting truths or carefully framing it, even when dealing with awful people, and compromising or postponing grand strategic goals for short-term gains.
I feel like many young men are being alienated by people pissed off with the status quo that fail at or refuse to engage with them diplomatically. I get it, I don’t want to compromise or negotiate on basic human rights and dignity either. I don’t want to wait for things to get better. I don’t want to coddle the sensitive pride of chauvinistic dickheads.
But reactionary grift thrives on the (negative) reaction to being told your way of life, your habits, your norms are bad and wrong, and particularly to the (exaggerated) impression that you are bad and wrong for reasons beyond you control (like being born with a dick) or that you are irrelevant.
We need to find a way to communicate issues more diplomatically and include these men in the conversation and solution rather than making them “the other”.
And we also need to reign in the hardcore misandrists who genuinely do want to turn this into us vs. them.
Thanks for putting it in words, people from the left at core want to help but they attack anyone who is in close proximity to them and appear to be the part of the statues queue, like " if not privileged why privileged shaped"
The whole situation becomes like:
“hi, I have problems with my job…”
“But you are a man, you are working for a multi-billion dollar company founded by men, who are part of oppression and putting the world in a dangerous place…”
“But I am a server at McDonald…”
“Is anything factually wrong with what I said… No right, see you are part of the problem”
The above example is over simplification but that’s how many of the conversations have felt when I tried to explain my position.
we know how do it. bernie sanders, aoc, and mandani show us the way.
the issue is their ‘way’ is wholesome and isn’t based on self-righteous rage and self-importance, so people don’t like it and it freaks them out. the issue is so many people use politics as nothing more than a drug to fuel their self righteous superiority complex, where they are ‘right’ and everyone else is ‘wrong’ based purely on the beliefs, not any objective reality or facts.
No one has mentioned anything yet what the right offers to help men as a solution. They only said going right as a ‘fuck you too’ threat towards the left.
You have a choice. Be the change or make threats.
If you got a flat tire you can pull over to the side of the road and either:
1: repair it
or
2: punch a hole into the rest of the tires and bitterly yell at all the other cars for having working tires.
If the second was your choice, you can’t pretend for a moment you got involved legitimately to fix a tire. It is a choice. It is your choice. Not everyone else. Not the left. Yours.
The right offers community for men and a traditional pathway to life milestones that are a core part of happiness for men. This pathway of work hard, go to church, meet a women from church, have kids is very appealing for a lot of men.
They offer structure, discipline and motivation for young men to better themselves.
There is more but these are core I think.
And take any chance you get to troll online to threaten hostility to the left. That is after all why you’re here in this thread on this topic. It isn’t offering much in the way of dealing with feelings and handling challenges of life.
The whole thing hinges on a fragile balance on a very specific mindset that isn’t sustainable without following a very specific path.
Easy to melt a snowflake under that kind of pressure.
And throwing away homosexual men. Their safety isn’t even considered in your one little check box box when they face some of the biggest challenges among men.
Not really convincing me that men’s health is the forefront of your interest here.
they listen and acknowledge their problems. instead of telling men to shut up and fuck off and die.
the fact you think the left having to acknowledge men as legitimate human beings who suffer is sacriled5igous is precisely the problem. the right treats them like people, and isn’t ‘ashamed’ to ask for their support
Man, thats some high quality projection right there.
I hope you’re getting paid well, because holy hell to be able to say that shit with a straight face is almost impressive.
Nah dude, i am just not an ideologue. I don’t view politics as one side good, other side bad. I don’t treat politics as if it’s religion where we must shun and kill the non-believers.
And sadly that is a perspective so called ‘open minded tolerant’ leftists cannot abide. the possibility that maybe they are just as wrong and stupid as the people they hate because their politics is governed by belief and tribalism above all else. and how totally alienating that is the average person goes right over their heads, because they are true believers who think belief it and of itself justified all their shitty actions and words towards non-believers.
"Im totally not an idealogue, I’m totally open minded, thats why I can safely say that liberals are evilbad and republicans are flawless and love and respect everyone equally, despite 15 mount everests of facts and proof showing otherwise. Also its totally the democrats that want to kill non-believers, its totally not my pure, loving republican party that wants to do that. "
i never said any of that, but i’m glad you can’t take any criticsm of the leftism without devolving it into good vs evil. which is precisely why young men are anti-left. they don’t want to be told how evil they are. nobody does.
Yeah, Thats why young people are anti-left.
It has nothing to do with the fact that there are entire youtube and facebook groups engineered for and dedicated to funneling the vulneralbe into the right wing hate machine, and how every one of them has family members concerned and saying they changed and became so hateful after starting to listen to whatever right wing predator dejure they picked up.
No no, its the evil left, for being super evil with their calling out republican nonsense, propaganda, and lies.
Truly, Republicans are the greatest, most oppressed victims on earth. Even Jesus weeps for the unfair cruelty of their plight.
It’s both, really. One side pulling, the other side is pushing.