Just giggled as my last meme mentioned trouble with displays and appropriately, a large chunk of the replies were “well MY displays work just fine!” (And charmingly, many were thoughts of things to check, other distros etc. It’s a very kind community, though that may also be the fediverse.)
I’ve found the Linux community to be quite helpful. But I’ve not really used Lemmy for tech support. The Arch Wiki is damn near a Linux Wikipedia. And any active board dedicated to a particular Distro are where I’ve gotten help.
It seems really hard at first but the more problems you solve the more sense everything makes.
Ignore the gatekeepers.
I’ve been running slackware as my main since the late '90s, and the arch wiki has been invaluable and often recommended by all.
But I’ve not really used Lemmy for tech support.
I would sooner ask a rabid squirrel for relaxing holiday ideas.
a large chunk of the replies were “well MY displays work just fine!”
I just went to check the previous thread, and I think there’s miscommunication both ways here.
They read your post as “I’m trying Linux, but it’s even hard to get monitors to work.” So, they responded, “I haven’t had a problem with monitors on Linux in decades.”
There’s not much else they can say, as you weren’t really asking for advice, so you didn’t give any technical details, but you were still complaining about something that they like.
Meanwhile, you read them as you said, “well MY displays work just fine!” So their replies seem utterly baffling, defensive, and unhelpful from your perspective.
I think you nailed it exactly. Also, someone else pointed out there was a time when Linux could legit break your monitor and even though that hasn’t been the case for years it’s still a bit of a sore spot.
I have a friend who runs arch, and recommends arch to people. His computer constantly has problems because he doesn’t fully know what he’s doing.
I respect doing it for yourself, you do you, but I feel like he’s actively discouraging my friends from giving Linux a go because of his constant issues. Recommending the hardest distro to beginners just bugs me.
Yeah, let everyone do their own thing - there’s nothing wrong with starting with Slackware if you want to. But if we’re going to recommend a starting point to people, maybe go with something that is designed to work out of the box. There’s going to be so much else to get adjusted to that extra options aren’t necessary.
Oh, and by the way, most people don’t like tinkering. They want their car to take them from A to B and their computer to do the thing, it’s not a hobby for them and we shouldn’t expect new users to be looking for a new hobby.
we shouldn’t expect new users to be looking for a new hobby.
Infinitely this!
Yes, it’s super cool to have control over your own damned machine but for some, the computer is just the thing the lets them work, porn and game.
Gentoo begs to differ
If you convince someone to try Linux, you give them all the emotional and intellectual support they need, for this is the law.
Look, you’re harming our effort to convince people that there are no bugs in Tux-Sing-Se. How are we gonna get people to switch unless we pretend that all is perfect and flawless? Because clearly, that’s what Windows users expect…
(sarcasm)
Of course there are no bugs in Tux-Sing-Se. When i moved there, I had an absolute bug free experience and only needed one small hour to get my Bluetooth headphones working!
There are no bugs in Tux-Sing-Se, only user error.
I posted in official support channels for my flavor of Fedora not having functioning Windows EXE thumbnails, despite having evidence of it working out-of-the-box for other people. It got two replies, “Lol, find another distro if you don’t like it,” and “Did you install (package that comes pre-installed)?”
In truth, this is how almost every issue I’ve had with Linux has gone, which is likely why I’ve had three false starts and gone through six different distros before deciding to stick with this one that is only mildly broken.
I’d love to know what it is about help threads that attracts people who don’t believe in helping.
My experience has been finding a 5 step solution to a problem, with step 3 not working properly and requiring several hours of effort to find a workaround, finding an entirely different solution elsewhere (that also doesn’t work), then discovering there’s been a flatpack the entire time.
Still have bazzite on my shitty 10 year old laptop because it cannot possibly run windows at this point, but I don’t think I’d daily drive it.
I find the best way to get help is to find a good source of documentation, rather than asking questions directly. ArchWiki is great, UbuntuWiki is not bad. There are lots of blogs out there with people writing guides for how to solve issues that they’ve had, and they’re usually really good (but this relies on search engines finding these results).
-hey, you should switch to Linux now, it’s way better than Windows 11, everything works and the community is very helpful
-what? you’re having some issues on Linux? uhh, skill issue, go back to windows lolI have been in the Linux community for a decade now and I have yet to see anyone recommend someone go back to Windows
I tried mint and that’s exactly what I was told to do when I have a complaint.
Just one more distro man, I swear it’ll solve everything this time man
The linux user community is its own worst fucking enemy
It’s not TOO bad around here, but when I was on a Linux binge on Youtube, some people in the comments there genuinely just don’t want other people to move to Linux. That’s not my words, it’s theirs. They flat out don’t want new Linux users or for Linux to grow… but they use it.
Sorry, linux is full, go away.
The internet was a great place before the everyone started using it and the corpos got onboard. I think that’s where that attitude comes from.
I can sort of understand this instinct. I am not opposed to new people using linux but I think the obsession with “growth” is the wrong way to think about software tools.
The way most companies make adoption of their software system grow is by making it more convenient to use, then exploiting network effects to force more users on to their platform. For the vast majority of people “convenient to use” means a locked down environment where they have little or no control and don’t have to make technical decisions.
Right now to use a Linux OS you are going to have to do a little bit of learning and make some decisions. The requirement that you actually think about an OS for a few minutes acts as a significant barrier for a lot of people, but removing that barrier results in a product that does not allow the user to control their software. Which I think would be bad.
I can sort of understand this instinct. I am not opposed to new people using linux but I think the obsession with “growth” is the wrong way to think about software tools.
For me, “growth” is a means to an end, not the end itself. I want Linux saturation. Largely, I view Linux more as a project to empower good and smart people against stagnant stupidity and reactionary evil of (most of) the super wealthy. Unfortunately, this means taking on masses of fucking morons on board the linux train. If you don’t have that network effect, you are throwing away power, and our enemies will never do that. They will always grab on to and hold in a death grip every piece of power and leverage they possibly can.
So smart and good people (linux experts/devs) need to understand that if they want good things, they need to be willing to fight ruthless (but stupid) monsters, and that also requires ruthlessness and morally grey thinking. And it means accepting the dirty masses into their smart people club, in fact encouraging them in (maybe some of those dumb fucks will stop being dumb by way of being pulled in).
christ, imagine being so sad a person you build your special personality around a friggin OS.
but when I was on a Linux binge on Youtube, some people in the comments there genuinely just don’t want other people to move to Linux.
Probably Microsoft bots attempt at keeping Windows alive.
Probably Microsoft bots attempt at keeping Windows alive.
Yes. I think no one really knows how much this happens, but I keep seeing evidence that it is happening much more than that average person suspects.
Despite it’s reputation, I don’t remember anyone being unkind even in the arch forums, worst cases I would describe more so as inconsiderate. We all lift together, after all
My display is working fine.
*audio
Audio! I went from stereo to 7.1 and got this intense loud buzz that wouldn’t go away! (Fedora KDE). Drove me nuts. Spent hours trying every dang thing. Finally connected it to a Windows machine. Same buzz. My woofer had just ate itself. Nothing to do with Linux at all.
As a ~25 year Linux user, I am absolutely a gorgeous donkey
People don’t use the correct terms when describing things. Linux users are very helpful, but some people are much more DIRECT and don’t want to hold your hand, just like the Arch community. Ask a dumb question, get a smart ass response. But still read all of them and then you will eventually find the solution to your problem.
I have been able to fix all the issues i had with linux after a few weeks of trial and error. Now i have linux running on several computers and things just work. When they don’t, you know there are 50 Ubuntu help threads to get you the information you need.
Have a windows issue? Good luck even getting windows to acknowledge the problem, let alone fix it.
Alternative 2nd panel: “Linux users once you reveal your choice of distro”
I literally had this reaction from a someone recently. I commented that I had trouble installing a specific program, so I switched back to windows for now. I was not looking for advice, it was just a post asking about recent Windows user’s experience switching to Linux, so I shared my experience and that I had the intention to try again because I want off Windows.
Dude commented like I’m just a dumb dumb who didn’t follow the numerous instructions online (I did) because it’s so easy to install on Linux (doesn’t change my issue) that their mom could do it (again, still doesn’t change that I had issues).
I’ll be trying again soon, but I can understand why some folks would be turned off of Linux because of that.
I saw that post, and honestly, part of the issue is that the pain of messing with mode-lines in /etc/XF86Config and worrying about physically damaging your CRT monitor with out-of-spec frequencies was a very real thing 30 years ago. Hence, the idea that configuring displays on Linux is fraught and difficult has stuck around, even though it hasn’t been true since the advent of DDC, and multiple displays for most use-cases has been sorted out for at least the past 15 years. Non-Linux users will still occasionally talk about displays on Linux as if we were still editing mode-lines in vi.
It’s a sore point, I guess I’m saying, and you poked it inadvertently. When I read the post, I just kind of smiled, because a few days before, I plugged the HDMI cable from a conference room display into my Thinkpad, and it lit up with an extension of my desktop. I started LibreOffice Impress, hit ‘F5’, and the presentation appeared on the big display, and the presentation notes on my laptop screen. (Actually, I was surprised and impressed at how smoothly it went.)
It’s no surprise that issues remain here and there, though. Glad to hear that folks wanted to be helpful!
part of the issue is that the pain of messing with mode-lines in /etc/XF86Config and worrying about physically damaging your CRT monitor with out-of-spec frequencies
I mean I fucked up my install by following the instructions for Optimus cards off the Debian wiki.
I reinstalled Debian, tried gaming specific distros, My computer still overheats when playing games
