Okay, hear me out. If a bunch of germans want to go to different countries and a bunch of people want to go to germany from different countries, you could just make immigration easier and allow a constant flow of people arround the eu. We already know international exchange programs are good for people, so im guessing moving to a new country also is. You get a new perspective, learn a new language, have to adjust to new conditions, etc, all really good things to learn in the long run.
The contention is that people want to leave in part because of high immigration. Germany is not like America. Everyone is entitled to generous social benefits. After many years of high rates of refugee admissions (especially following the Syrian Refugee Crisis), the national budget is becoming very difficult to balance. Taxes continue to rise for everyone, and services are harder to get. Even visiting the doctor can be very difficult now in many cities. Many GPs aren’t taking any new patients. Many young Germans argue that the social contract is broken. The state prioritises the welfare of new arrivals and the elderly, and ignores the needs of the young.
Of course there are also many other factors. Germany’s decision to prematurely shut down its nuclear reactors will go down in history as one of the worst political and strategic decisions in history. It caused electricity prices to skyrocket and has decimated Germany’s previously impressive manufacturing sectors. They also have cultural issues embracing technological efficiency improvements. Most government departments still run by fax machine (by law). Most paperwork must be handled physically. Most Germans still prefer cash. Etc.
Ultimately I agree with you directionally - provided Germany liberalises its immigration only for high earners. This has been the major contention. A very high number of immigrants are low or no skill, and cost the state an enormous amount. This is causing massive economic and social issues. If Germany halted all low/no skilled immigration, sentiment would improve for high skilled immigration. Young people might feel like the social contract were not being torn up.
Edit: the level of discussion here is worse than anything I have ever experienced on Reddit. All replies are some variation of “nuh uh.”
The contention is that people want to leave in part because of high immigration.
No, they want to get out before lying right-wing morons, their rich media allies and all the propaganda victims (pick which group you belong to, though I have my suspicion…) demolish the country in preparation for getting fascists into power again. Because some of us were actually awake in school.
There is basically nobody who leaves because of a high level of immigration. Its either people who welcome immigrants or ones that will fight tooth and nail to have immigrants everywhere but their country. They will try to get them deported but not leave their own country cause that very flawed logic itself also prevents them from assimilating to other cultures. The national budget on the other hand is fucked because of reckless and unbalanced spending rather than immigrants, spain for example functions because of immigrants. Look at the stark contrast between portugal and spain, one just “deals” with immigration, the other thrives with immigration. The economy is shit in every single country basically so you cant really blame it on immigrants when countries with 0%, 1% and 30% immigrant populations are being hit equally. For fucks sake theres a war in ukraine, gaza and iran, all of which contribute to this and all of which are completely unnecessary. The immigration crisis from syria is also kinda the wests fault but thats a different discussion. I cant really comment on such domestic issues cause i dont have that much insight but from what i hear, the social contract is mainly “failing”(putting that in quotes because you make it sound like theres a better alternative) in the areas of public transit and public builings, havent heard of very large problems with the healthcare other than overdiagnosis(this is something a german doctor friend said, once again not my own experience). Overdoagnosis being a problem where doctors follow precedures 1 to 1 and test for a million different things that dont really affect you and the treatment often causes more harm. Of course this is not about cancer and such but rarer, “less important” diseases.
The fax and nuclear reactors are were/are horrible decisions but i dont think thats something that would effect emmigration so directly. In general germany should modernise, but this is true for every sector in germany and also in general for every european country without the exception of like estonia.
As for the low/no skill argument, brother, you are either stupid af or racist. Most syrian immigrants(and others from the middle east and tbf the rest of the world) who came to europe used to have means and education. The ones who could escape syria often were the better off ones with companies and degrees. Its enough to spend like 2 seconds with any immigrant and all of them are doctors and entrepreneurs and whatever but they had to leave their life in the middle east cause they were escaping from a fucking war. Doctors licenses from the middle east are not valid in europe. I know nurses who sell doughnuts and doctors who had to redo their whole university education(6+ years) to be able to practition in europe. The only people spreading the “low skill” argument are people who are racists or the ones who believe and follow the racists.
Well I read the article and know that it does not give any reasons for why these people want to emigrate, which indicates to me that this question probably was not asked in the survey. You got any basis for what you claim or is this just 100% anecdotes, feelings, and a stringing-together of right-wing talking points?
I read the article and know that it does not give any reasons for why these people want to emigrate, which indicates to me that this question probably was not asked in the survey.
I read the article - which gives various reasons for dissatisfaction and issues for the youth - as those are the reasons people are dissatisfied and want to emigrate.
Reasons for dissatisfaction can be different from reasons for emigration. They might be a subset, a superset, or have no overlap whatsoever. I am also dissatisfied about certain things, but these things are no reason for me to leave the country. So what makes them leave? Is it immigration like the commenter suggested? Is it the rise of anti-immigrant political parties that threaten democracy? Is it both? Neither? Something else? The article does not say. Hell, one reason why people say “I want to emigrate” could be that they don’t know what the word means, or how the question was phrased together with the tendency of survey respondents to respond in the affirmative.
At the very least, it’s not the article that makes the causal connection but the study, at least its press release.
Der Druck auf die junge Generation steigt und die Chancen, diesen gerecht zu werden, schwinden. Dauerkrisen,
unsichere berufliche Perspektiven, Schulden und mentaler Stress prägen die Lebenslage vieler junger Menschen. Als Reaktion wenden sie sich den politischen Rändern zu oder denken sogar daran, Deutschland zu verlassen. Das ist die zentrale Botschaft der neunten Trendstudie „Jugend in Deutschland“
We’ll either have to trust that or not. But there’s no real indication that the causality is not there. To verify the claim we’d need access to the study.
Are you making a technical point of contention on a specific case, or broadly disagreeing? Germany’s social services are as expansive as they are expensive.
You are incorrect on all points and I refuse to believe you actually live in Europe. You write like an alien who’s only had access to 4chan and /r/redscarepod
The contention is that people want to leave in part because of high immigration.
I’m pretty sure the demographic that thinks about going to other places is also the demographic that overwhelmingly does not have any issue with immigration.
Immigration isn’t the problem. It never was. The Nazis just make you believe this. It’s not the morons believing these lies that want to leave though. It’s the progressive people who don’t want to live in a country that is dumb enough to go full Nazi for the second time. You are part of the reason why people want to leave.
The contention is that people want to leave in part because of high immigration. Germany is not like America. Everyone is entitled to generous social benefits. After many years of high rates of refugee admissions (especially following the Syrian Refugee Crisis), the national budget is becoming very difficult to balance. Taxes continue to rise for everyone, and services are harder to get. Even visiting the doctor can be very difficult now in many cities. Many GPs aren’t taking any new patients. Many young Germans argue that the social contract is broken. The state prioritises the welfare of new arrivals and the elderly, and ignores the needs of the young.
National budget is definitely not bad because billionaires in Germany pay zero taxes on their incomes and inheritance while entire tax burden is taken by value producing working class. /S
The social contract is broken, because workers pay taxes and billionaires and multi millionaires don’t. While govt takes away 35% fruit of my labour even before I see it, multi millionaires and billionaires don’t even generate any fruits, while taking truck loads of fruits away from economy and people who generate fruits. The social contract is broken because of the generational thief of billionaire class.
Other than that, I agree most of what you have to say. The German superiority complex is also a big problem.
While all the things you list are issues, the main reasons why people want to leave are others.
high taxes and related expenses like healthcare, retirement
high regulation
better wages for qualified labor in other countries
failure to modernize and use computers
worsening education
crumbling infrastructure
stagnant wages
Soon you might need to have pay for health care, retirement, school, etc. yourself in Germany to get quality. You might as well move to a country where the state doesn’t run these things and pay for private everything.
Okay, hear me out. If a bunch of germans want to go to different countries and a bunch of people want to go to germany from different countries, you could just make immigration easier and allow a constant flow of people arround the eu. We already know international exchange programs are good for people, so im guessing moving to a new country also is. You get a new perspective, learn a new language, have to adjust to new conditions, etc, all really good things to learn in the long run.
No borders No nations Free migrations?
The contention is that people want to leave in part because of high immigration. Germany is not like America. Everyone is entitled to generous social benefits. After many years of high rates of refugee admissions (especially following the Syrian Refugee Crisis), the national budget is becoming very difficult to balance. Taxes continue to rise for everyone, and services are harder to get. Even visiting the doctor can be very difficult now in many cities. Many GPs aren’t taking any new patients. Many young Germans argue that the social contract is broken. The state prioritises the welfare of new arrivals and the elderly, and ignores the needs of the young.
Of course there are also many other factors. Germany’s decision to prematurely shut down its nuclear reactors will go down in history as one of the worst political and strategic decisions in history. It caused electricity prices to skyrocket and has decimated Germany’s previously impressive manufacturing sectors. They also have cultural issues embracing technological efficiency improvements. Most government departments still run by fax machine (by law). Most paperwork must be handled physically. Most Germans still prefer cash. Etc.
Ultimately I agree with you directionally - provided Germany liberalises its immigration only for high earners. This has been the major contention. A very high number of immigrants are low or no skill, and cost the state an enormous amount. This is causing massive economic and social issues. If Germany halted all low/no skilled immigration, sentiment would improve for high skilled immigration. Young people might feel like the social contract were not being torn up.
Edit: the level of discussion here is worse than anything I have ever experienced on Reddit. All replies are some variation of “nuh uh.”
As a German I need to tell you: nope. Nothing in your comment makes sense. Please don’t try to educate people about stuff you are clueless.
At least you are a good example for the Dunning Krüger effect.
No, they want to get out before lying right-wing morons, their rich media allies and all the propaganda victims (pick which group you belong to, though I have my suspicion…) demolish the country in preparation for getting fascists into power again. Because some of us were actually awake in school.
Maybe that’s because you don’t cite sources and your message is bullshit.
There is basically nobody who leaves because of a high level of immigration. Its either people who welcome immigrants or ones that will fight tooth and nail to have immigrants everywhere but their country. They will try to get them deported but not leave their own country cause that very flawed logic itself also prevents them from assimilating to other cultures. The national budget on the other hand is fucked because of reckless and unbalanced spending rather than immigrants, spain for example functions because of immigrants. Look at the stark contrast between portugal and spain, one just “deals” with immigration, the other thrives with immigration. The economy is shit in every single country basically so you cant really blame it on immigrants when countries with 0%, 1% and 30% immigrant populations are being hit equally. For fucks sake theres a war in ukraine, gaza and iran, all of which contribute to this and all of which are completely unnecessary. The immigration crisis from syria is also kinda the wests fault but thats a different discussion. I cant really comment on such domestic issues cause i dont have that much insight but from what i hear, the social contract is mainly “failing”(putting that in quotes because you make it sound like theres a better alternative) in the areas of public transit and public builings, havent heard of very large problems with the healthcare other than overdiagnosis(this is something a german doctor friend said, once again not my own experience). Overdoagnosis being a problem where doctors follow precedures 1 to 1 and test for a million different things that dont really affect you and the treatment often causes more harm. Of course this is not about cancer and such but rarer, “less important” diseases.
The fax and nuclear reactors are were/are horrible decisions but i dont think thats something that would effect emmigration so directly. In general germany should modernise, but this is true for every sector in germany and also in general for every european country without the exception of like estonia.
As for the low/no skill argument, brother, you are either stupid af or racist. Most syrian immigrants(and others from the middle east and tbf the rest of the world) who came to europe used to have means and education. The ones who could escape syria often were the better off ones with companies and degrees. Its enough to spend like 2 seconds with any immigrant and all of them are doctors and entrepreneurs and whatever but they had to leave their life in the middle east cause they were escaping from a fucking war. Doctors licenses from the middle east are not valid in europe. I know nurses who sell doughnuts and doctors who had to redo their whole university education(6+ years) to be able to practition in europe. The only people spreading the “low skill” argument are people who are racists or the ones who believe and follow the racists.
Well I read the article and know that it does not give any reasons for why these people want to emigrate, which indicates to me that this question probably was not asked in the survey. You got any basis for what you claim or is this just 100% anecdotes, feelings, and a stringing-together of right-wing talking points?
I read the article - which gives various reasons for dissatisfaction and issues for the youth - as those are the reasons people are dissatisfied and want to emigrate.
Reasons for dissatisfaction can be different from reasons for emigration. They might be a subset, a superset, or have no overlap whatsoever. I am also dissatisfied about certain things, but these things are no reason for me to leave the country. So what makes them leave? Is it immigration like the commenter suggested? Is it the rise of anti-immigrant political parties that threaten democracy? Is it both? Neither? Something else? The article does not say. Hell, one reason why people say “I want to emigrate” could be that they don’t know what the word means, or how the question was phrased together with the tendency of survey respondents to respond in the affirmative.
At the very least, it’s not the article that makes the causal connection but the study, at least its press release.
We’ll either have to trust that or not. But there’s no real indication that the causality is not there. To verify the claim we’d need access to the study.
This is patently false.
Are you making a technical point of contention on a specific case, or broadly disagreeing? Germany’s social services are as expansive as they are expensive.
You are incorrect on all points and I refuse to believe you actually live in Europe. You write like an alien who’s only had access to 4chan and /r/redscarepod
I’m pretty sure the demographic that thinks about going to other places is also the demographic that overwhelmingly does not have any issue with immigration.
Immigration isn’t the problem. It never was. The Nazis just make you believe this. It’s not the morons believing these lies that want to leave though. It’s the progressive people who don’t want to live in a country that is dumb enough to go full Nazi for the second time. You are part of the reason why people want to leave.
National budget is definitely not bad because billionaires in Germany pay zero taxes on their incomes and inheritance while entire tax burden is taken by value producing working class. /S
The social contract is broken, because workers pay taxes and billionaires and multi millionaires don’t. While govt takes away 35% fruit of my labour even before I see it, multi millionaires and billionaires don’t even generate any fruits, while taking truck loads of fruits away from economy and people who generate fruits. The social contract is broken because of the generational thief of billionaire class.
Other than that, I agree most of what you have to say. The German superiority complex is also a big problem.
While all the things you list are issues, the main reasons why people want to leave are others.
Soon you might need to have pay for health care, retirement, school, etc. yourself in Germany to get quality. You might as well move to a country where the state doesn’t run these things and pay for private everything.