- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.zip
Having your own collection is great. But it doesn’t provide the service Spotify does (or any streaming service). 80% of the time I listen to discovery-type generated playlists. I want to find new music. This is fundamentally impossible with the music I own. This is something you can’t self host. Even if you have a vast collection of music you don’t know (by whatever means your get it), you still need the algorithms to pick the music that you’re likely to like.
I really wish I could. I self host basically everything else. Even tried some local music similarity training for “smart playlists”. It’s kinda neat at best, but no where remotely close to the music discovery of Spotify and other online services. You need the massive amounts of users to derive that data.
No joke here, try (internet) radio. You’ll discover stuff you’d never get on algo-based recommendations. I might be biased by growing up with Winamp’s shoutcast
Of course I have. Specifically RadioParadise(.com) is great for this, which I’ve listened to through winamp’s shoutcast as well (multiple decades ago). I’ve even been a supporter for all those decades at this point. But it’s a very far cry away from the personalized (discovery) playlists. The efficiency diffference for discovering music is orders of magnitude: I find maybe 1-3 songs a month compared to 5+ in a week for discovery playlists (somtimes less, usually more). You can even skip songs you don’t like on there, but that still doesn’t make up for it being universal and not personalized.
It’s nice as a palate cleanser, or when I don’t wanna put effort into selecting what to play. But I’d lose my mind listening to it for truly extended periods of time. The music is great, and the (human) selection is superb, but just by the nature of personal taste, I only like around 30% of the music I’d say.
I believe plexamp will scan your library and will make the discovery-type playlist you’re looking for
First of all, after recent events I’m not touching anything from “Plex” with a proverbial 10 foot pole.
But even that aside, no it won’t do what I want because it can’t. I can’t discover something outside of my library with it. It’s a music player for a Plex library. It can generate playlists of songs with similar styles, and that’s nice and all, but not what I’m looking for. I’m looking for playlists of things I don’t own, or know, or ever heard of, but that are still likely to be something I like. I don’t want a sophisticated “shuffle”.
I was addressing this part of what you said:
Even if you have a vast collection of music you don’t know (by whatever means your get it), you still need the algorithms to pick the music that you’re likely to like.
EDIT: also, fwiw, I didn’t downvote you lol.
I want to find new music. This is fundamentally impossible with the music I own.
You can simply visit the artist page on lastfm and see related artists . On Bandcamp when i buy an album i want visit the profile on the people who buy the same item . There is really many way to discover artists without spotify when you think about it
I guess that’s where the ListenBrainz/Last.fm part comes in (which is mentioned in the article).
I still get music recommendations via friends, concert/festival lineups and online forums, but that’s just for my “main” genres. For other stuff, Spotify is quasi the only solution for me as well.
Friends don’t work for me. I don’t know a single person who listens to even close to the things that I like. Sure there’s some overlap occasionally, and I might hear about one artist once a week or month. I get dozens to hundreds recommended by spotify weekly, and I actually end up liking a handful of those. With friends, it also only works with known artists, and it’s incredibly rare to get reommended something that isn’t well known but happens to fit my taste by them (don’t think that ever happened, actually). As an example just last week I got recommended an artist that has 60-something monthly listeners on Spotify (now 74!). I liked them so much I tried to see what I can find, and they got a youtube channel with 3 (live) videos and like 500-ish views each (38 subscribers). NOBODY is ever gonna recommend me those kinds of things, cause nobody ever heard of them, let alone anyone of my friends (and even if they have, they’d have to know to recommend them to me).
As for the listenbrainz/last.fm that is kind of a solution, but it takes a very long time to train up your profile to actually be useful. I haven’t used it in a VERY long time (decades), but last I did it was kinda “meh”. You can also only start out with what you have, as you’re scrobbling what you’re listenting to. I no longer have most of the music I listen to daily as an actual file/library. So getting that up to date would probably cost thousands of dollars, too. Not to mention it being incredibly tedious to actually gather them on various individual shops and sites like bandcamp or wherever those artists happen to be.
So as much as I wish there was, there isn’t really a (pracical) alternative. Let alone one of the same “competence”.
As for the listenbrainz/last.fm that is kind of a solution, but it takes a very long time to train up your profile to actually be useful.
This isn’t a huge issue, listenbrainz supports importing your spotify history.
Isn’t Spotify just using an AI? Couldn’t one self host an AI that plugs into the music library and makes recommendations?
Call me old, but people should learn to discover music in different ways (friends, press, concerts, etc.) and not wait to be fed by corporations… just a thought.
See my other reply to tofu. Not the same thing. You just couldn’t do what these services do even 2 decades ago. You could discover things, but at a very different pace and very different reach. You’re limited to discover what friends know from them. Discovering things via “press” isn’t free either, it takes time to read the articles, buy the magazines (do they still exists?) and you’re likely to only hear about popular things. You also need to find publications that suit your own taste, or learn which authors are compatible with it.
As for concerts you can only go to those that are near you, which is either local artists or those big enough to tour away from their home base. There are artists that don’t tour at all (probably a third of my catalog falls into this category).
Discovering things via “press” isn’t free either, it takes time to read the articles, buy the magazines
I don’t know about you but this is so fun for me it bring me joy and fulfillment as opposed to being fed by algorithm
It’s the opposite for me. I don’t want to read about music. I just want to listen to music that I don’t know yet but am likely to like. I don’t want to dig around for it. The algorithms you dislike do something that no article or podcast can: give me personally tailored recommendations. She not in an abstract way but just as a playlist.
An algorithm has zero concept of artistic quality . I also want to always extends my taste and not the opposite
I’m aware it has no concept of artistic quality. But I also don’t care about the quality of music, especially if perceived by some journalist. I only care if I like music. Some of it is intricately composed, masterfully performed. Some is pop, or generic/simple house.
I have discovered entire genres with the algorithms you seem to think only give narrowing recommendations. Some people probably listened to those and something I liked.
Let me repeat again: I have discovered many, many artists for me that I literally would have no realistic chance of every hearing about in any other way. Ever!
I’m aware it has no concept of artistic quality. But I also don’t care about the quality of music, especially if perceived by some journalist. I only care if I like music. Some of it is intricately composed, masterfully performed. Some is pop, or generic/simple house.
The concept of artistic quality is simply subjective. I don’t think intricately composed music or complex music make a song artistically better. To me a quality song artistically song is simply and enjoyable and impactful song. My definition of impactful is wide too it make me a song with really serious subject matter or simply a funny simple song that could me feel better mentally .
While i enjoy an journalist talking about a song and album it doesn’t mean i will trust his opinion but i prefer that than an non human telling me what it think is music i would enjoy. Someone may talk negatively about a music and explain why he hate it and i may find the think he hated is what will make me enjoy the song he dislike
I have discovered entire genres with the algorithms you seem to think only give narrowing recommendations. Some people probably listened to those and something I liked.
I read Bandcamp daily to know about some obscure genre . It is again just my preference, i will always prefer human recommendation
Let me repeat again: I have discovered many, many artists for me that I literally would have no realistic chance of every hearing about in any other way. Ever!
Same but without relying on an algorithm
If someone wrote this article in the early 90s, it would be called “Why I ditched the radio, and how I created my own CD collection.” I think rephrasing it that way really shines a light on why it’s mostly still comparing apples and oranges.
I have a pretty substantial collection of music hovering around 5,000 albums or 1.6TB (mostly lossless FLAC these days, but still some moldy old mp3s and ogg vorbis files from my youth). I’m not even counting the physical media I still hold on to. I still use Spotify for discovery and playlists. I don’t think the depth and breadth of my library will ever match the depth and breadth of the music that I want to listen to in the very next moment. Lots of times I want to listen to the stuff I’m familiar with, and I do that using my own library. But, when I want to: remember a song I heard in the wild, share a holiday playlist with friends, make an obscurely themed playlist of songs features peaches, preview a musician’s or band’s stuff, discover other things that musician has collaborated on, or simply discover new music; I still use Spotify.
There are (or were) bits and pieces out there (many that pre-date Spotify) that can do some of these things. Last.fm (fka Audioscrobbler) was good for tracking listening habits to compare and share with others, it helped a little with discovery. I used allmusic.com a lot long ago to discover the artists that inspired the artists I was listening. If I wanted to share a playlist, I made a mixtape (really it was burning a mix CD). But, all of these collected information only, not the music itself. If I wanted to actually hear a new song, I had to go somewhere and find it first. That often meant literally traveling somewhere else or ordering from a catalog and waiting for delivery. Every new music discovery was a bet made with real dollars that I would actually enjoy the thing or listen to it more than once. Even after napster paved the way for free listening via piracy, one still had to work to actually find the music.
Spotify (and similar services) finally collected (almost) all of it under one app, so that I could discover and listen seemlessly. It is instant gratification music discovery. I’ll never give up my self hosted collection, but I also don’t have much hope that any self curated collection will be able to complete with the way that I use Spotify. Spotify is just the new radio. It’s never the end of my listening though. Just like with radio, when I find something I like enough, then I can expend the energy (or more often expend the money as directly with the band as I can) to add it to my collection.
My music taste would never be on radio
Similarly my music taste is not on Spotify either
I still have a lossless music player to listen to music that likely my artists just decided to not have in Spotify
So no I don’t think it’s an apple to oranges things
Radio sucks ass
Spotify sucks a bit less ass
Self hosting your own collection is the future
So edgy.




