Asking because I haven’t heard much about it that comes from reliable sources (actually reliable sources, not what Wikipedia defines as a reliable source).
I remember being in a class for immigrants where the majority were Muslims and when we were graduating from that class they all brought a bunch of snacks/cake and soda and anyone who even looked inside to see what was going on were forced to join the celebration. (forced in a joking way, it was a lot of fun)
I’ve also had a lot of co-workers who were Muslims and they were always the nicest and most engaged with being friends. Even years after I quit the job they still remember me and are happy to talk with me, mind you I am a socially awkward and autistic person.
Basically Islam is just a religion like any other and the hate they endure is incredibly distressing and sad.
It’s a perfectly fine religion that has sects and interpretations that become problematic, just like any other religion. Every Muslim I’ve ever met has been incredibly friendly, and without the weird vibe you get from Mormons. From visiting mosques as a kid, it’s exactly the same kind of religious calisthenics and sonic identity you’d find in churches and temples. Islam served (and to an extent, still does) a purpose for community cohesion, and it’s just slightly disappointing that that same community cohesion hasn’t happened on a wider scale like the USSR had.
Where I lived used to majority white, but then became very multicultural and I met several Muslims from different places, all incredibly nice people.
Maybe this is just a weird pattern I noticed, but I have noticed more muslim communists than other types of religious communists.
mostly because their countries are exploited for capital through endless war and multiple genocides, that does turn people to socialism
apart from that while i hesitate usually to ascribe these things to text and not just the conditions they find themselves in (and it’s true just look at the gulf states who have absolutely no care for the topic of justice at all, in fact, negative interest in it) i also usually feel as if the quran lends itself to proactivity from worshippers who find themselves ind ire straits, not just lying down and taking whatever comes because providence will guarantee heaven for them in the end
HOLY FUCKING SHIT IT’S OPIUMFREE FROM REDDIT
hello comrade 😀
They’re pretty normal. Remember there are 2 billion of them, 26% of the world. It would be unusual to expect them not to be mostly basically normal people.
The nice thing about their religion is that they are really clear on what is sacred. It’s a dirty world and they know that, but the mosque, the Quran, the name of the prophet, are very clearly marked out as being above that, a refuge of purity.
I think that it’s a religion followed by 2 billion people worldwide and deeply embedded into the fabric of their societies and cultures.
It’s a religion. I don’t like religion. But Islam constantly has enemies far worse than itself.
It’s a religion like any other religion. It’s susceptible to exceptionalism like any other religion.
My mother (who is Shia) is unfortunately very transphobic (I am trans myself, which I just found out recently), but this is true of other religions and is definitely not particular to Islam. This, by the way, disappointed me as she, as an anti-imperialist is otherwise pretty based politically speaking.
I don’t really have any thoughts on Islam specifically as opposed to any other religion.
Erm the people I work with and grew up with are perfectly normal people. In fact often my most reliable. I learned that most pay a “religious tax” from their take home pay (after usual taxes etc) to give to charities.
Zakat, which is ~2.5%. It’s also not just take home pay, but all your assets that you’ve had for at least a year
Christians and Jews call it a tithe, it’s supposed to be 10%. Idk about most Jews, but most local (to me) Christians donate 0-10%. Some tithe more.
Isn’t tithe specifically for the operations of the church, with one of those duties being charity? Apologies if I’m incorrect, I’m not Christian so I don’t know the exact concept.
I know we Shia Muslims have Zakat as well as well as Khums. Zakat being a percentage of all wealth (1/40th) taken at the end of the year for charity and Khums being 1/5th of disposable income for the operations of the faith. Essentially Zakat is based on wealth and a direct donation to charity whereas Khums is based on available income and assets after debts have been paid meant to uphold religious programs (one of which is also charity).
Khums is collected and distributed by mosques, Sheikhs, scholars, and Marja and distrubuted by these institutions to things like upkeep, funding schools, charity, pilgrimage programs, etc. It’s also quite specifically exists in the Shia faith because we believe that Sayyeds (people who have family connections to the prophet) are not allowed to recieve charity unless from other Sayyeds.
Khums is collected from Muslims and disturbed by those who collect it. Zakat meanwhile is an individual duty of every Muslim rather than something you just give to the masjid.
I’m writing all this to basically say, I thought that tithe was like the Christian version of Khums. However if someone can contridict me I’m case it’s a misunderstanding then please do so.
Thank you for sharing and expounding on your giving tradition, it’s quite interesting; are any exceptions made for those in poverty?
Well I’m not Jewish, but if I understand correctly, the word “tithe” descends from Jewish tradition of charity. Perhaps one of our Jewish comrads could confirm or deny?
Eta: in Christianity that I’ve experience with, whether protestant or Catholic, a flat 10% of gross income is expected, donated as you will. If given to a church, the church decides distribution, unless otherwise specified by the donor.
I personally try to give 70% monetarily, and 30% time, although my income after taxes often inverts the formula or dispenses with it altogether (based on material conditions). This formula is specific to myself for my own peculiar reasons.
Thank you for sharing and expounding on your giving tradition, it’s quite interesting; are any exceptions made for those in poverty?
No problem. If you have any debts to pay, for example a mortgage, rent, etc, than you must pay that first before Khums, though I’m not as sure about Zakat but I assume most Marja would apply the same ruling.
After looking it up from Sistani, the most widely followed Shia Marja, he essentially says, If the amount you have to pay after debts goes below a minimum threshold then Zikat is not obligatory.
Some links to Sistani on the general ruling of Zakat:
Most excellent replies, comrade, I look forward to reading these after evening chores! Thanks so much, again!
Fitra: I’m not sure I grasp the full comprehension of this word as given by search results, the best seems to be here: https://blog.quranmajeed.com/what-is-fitra-and-fidya-in-islam/ I admit I am regrettably ignorant, so the fault is probably my own.
I think I have a vague but good enough understanding of Zakat.
From a cursory reading of your and my links here, it does seem that if a person can not meet both debt and sustainable living expenses, you are correct about a very poor person being released from Zakat.
It would seem almsgiving from every religious perspective is supposed to prioritize the individuals over the institution, if it’s not possible to give to both.
For anyone with a faith position, whether you take it literally or not: how do you approach donated necessities of life (food, shelter, clothing, refrigeration, a way to cook, heat, cool, clean self and dwelling) that aren’t actually needed or usable by you? I tend to pass then along to the next person or donation outlet, which seems more desirable than letting it spoil or go to ruin if not perishables. Do you feel this is correct? Not that it absolves me from any portion of my own obligations, of course.
Fitra, basically is just derived from fitr which means “fasting”. If I’m remembering right, in regards to zakat, it’s essentially something somebody does if they can’t make up their fast for Ramadan for whatever reason. Instead of redoing your fast at a later day/partaking in the fast in general (usually due to health) the way to make up that fast is to give to charity.
For my family, we usually just try to use spoilables whenever we can but give them to other family members or the Mosque when we have a surplus. For things like clothing, I’m not as in tuned as I’m not one to buy ew clothing much unless I need to. For unneeded ones we usually give them to thrift stores, good will, donation, or to someone we know who needs them.
It just seems like the natural thing to do in my opinion, so I’ve never really ascribed a moral or objective position to it. So I guess by that metric I’d call it “correct” but that’s from just my subjective perspective rather an a detailed analysis of practice.
Yes most western Christian tithes go into the pocket of the church admin. Usually they have some performative charity program they will use some for to keep up the illusion of helping people and every now and then a church does a significant amount of charity that is more admirable.it is still quite different than how zakat typically functions
I don’t really have a particular opinion on Islam specifically. There isn’t really anything I can say about it - positive or negative - that couldn’t also be applied to Christianity or Judaism, honestly.
We’ve had previous struggle sessions on religion and I do want to remind everyone that even though you may not agree with eachother please remain civil and if you see any bad takes posted just report it k thanks
What is a struggle session? Also yeah that weird liberal that wondered into here talking about Xi Jinping as Winnie the Pooh was reported lol.
I’d have an uneasy time fasting given my need to eat before taking my medication, and I don’t have enough faith to pray five times daily. The need to pray that many times a day sounds like it would be good for self-discipline, as does the need to fast for Ramadhan in addition to the other dietary restrictions, but I feel like I’d have a hard time handling those tasks. Besides, I don’t feel like there is a divine presence somewhere, and adhering to monotheistic practices when I’m atheist sounds dishonest.
Islam also shares some of the same problems as Orthodox Judaism, for instance, it mandates circumcision, which is a painful violation of children’s autonomy; I still get depressed when I think about my circumcision. Likewise, I am uncomfortable with compulsory dress codes, and segregating the sexes is a practice that makes me feel uneasy. I consider these (apart from mandatory circumcision) to be annoying inconveniences rather than serious problems, though.
I am not one of those Christopher Hitchens types who think that Islam is just barbarism and its ordinary adherents are violent savages. The work The Study of Islamic Origins notes striking similarities, if not outright borrowings, from Judaism (which is usually good). I have respect for many Muslims such as Omar Mukhtar, Malcolm X, and a certain Sephardic Muslim whom I know. I find various tenets in Islam, such as its rejection of ‘original sin’, to be more reasonable than some in mainstream Christianity. Lastly, I would say that ordinary Muslims are not vastly different from other Abrahamists, therefore I have little reason to be hostile to Islam.
There seems like a few misconceptions I will address here:
Islam doesn’t mandate circumcision, it is only recommended as a continuation of Abrahamic lineage but it is not mandated in the Quran. It is quite common but not a religious requirement in the way other religions see it. The five pillars are the only requirements, everything else is up for interpretation and there have been endless variants of interpretation over the life of Islam. Even if there are dominant interpretations that have political and economic power to reinforce themselves in the world, it doesn’t mean they are truly correct in the eyes of Allah and it doesn’t mean one’s own relationship with Allah needs to look like that. Such as the trend of circumcision, homophobia, transphobia, patriarchy, etc. these are cultural practices that got adopted into Islamic communities but are not inherently Islamic or in the Quran itself. Even the five pillars have caveats to some degree like fasting and praying accomodations for disabled, elderly, pregnant and youth. Islam has been very flexible over the years and it is quite astounding how different the dominant norms of Islam 800 years ago looked to the post capital and post colonial norms we have today.
As a political institution, it’s what you’d expect from religion - ranging from mild to extreme reaction depending on the region. As a cultural one, it’s very good, both for the sake of empowering anti-imperial resistance and preserving a multitude of cultures. Now, culture is just a fancy way to say “how people live”, so just like any religion, it will lose relevance and eventually become a permanent resident of museum expositions, as our ways of life will change under socialism, and will force us to adopt a new culture, but at the moment it’s both an obstacle and an empowering tool for our comrades around the globe.
It can be used to motivate people to good things or bad things like all religions. Shia Islam does have a strong emphasis on social justice and fighting oppression.
I REALLY HEAVILY considered becoming Muslim (born and raised Catholic in USA) after I learned about a bunch of atrocities in the Middle East and being at a horrible point in my life AND admittedly wanting to LARP as a different kind of Cis-het White Guy in the USA. I wanted something different but I’ve ultimately become an atheist with heavy sympathies towards Catholics and Muslims. Call it basic, but I’ve come to terms with it. A lot better than when I was a little kid and had a vague view of Muslims as weird or bad because everyone on TV said Muslims were Osama Bin Laden. I can’t express enough how much I regret these feelings but I’d be outright lying if I said I wasn’t born out of Islamophobic beliefs as someone born in the early 2000s
