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You flew off the handle when I said Walt industrialised art.
Geez, where did I do that? I think you’re projecting a bit there, mate.
I don’t think he would personally have taken things as far as they’ve gone, but he WAS prepared to engage in the kind of consolidation of IPs that has led to modern Disney.
I think that’s a fair argument, but not something he personally wanted. More accurate I think is to consider it more a feature of capitalism and late-stage capitalism, which eventually becomes a pitiless tyrant IMO. I know of no real evidence that Walt really wanted that.
The artist owning the art was only a sacred concept to him concerning the things HE made.
Again, to me that’s just an over-the-top reaction about the loving care (and harsh-ish discipline) he applied to all major projects under his supervision. He absolutely busted arse (and others’ arses) to pay tribute to the creators… to make their stuff shine, if not to tell their stories exactly in original form. But that’s not how cinema ever worked, anyway.
Maybe she just didn’t want to deal with the major hassle of having creative control of a movie that would have taken a couple years to produce. I could definitely see that.
A ‘maybe’ (IMO) is an implication that a person is exploring an idea of something, just like putting an idea out there to see how it floats. In any case, in no shape, or way did I do the following:
…suggest that Tove’s real reason for refusing him, was not being interested in working “that hard” to realize her vision.
That is hardly an outrageous paraphrasing. The reason I used it was illustrate a fairly obvious adverse interpretation of what you wrote, which you probably missed.
A ‘maybe’ (IMO) is an implication that a person is exploring an idea of something
You felt that pointing out Walt Disney’s more industrious methods around art was on the strong side. You also went on to dismiss this as the reason Tove would have been uninterested in working with Disney, and instead floated the idea that Disney was too much of a “hassle” for her.
I reinforced my view on the first and added why the second was a pretty tactless take.
At this point you assumed I held a bunch of positions I don’t, to which I replied with a correction.
After that you’ve pretty much just been splitting hairs on my actual position.
To you, being normal “for the time” is an excuse. To me, it is not.
He acquired the film rights for Winnie the Pooh from the authors widow. He spent 20 years pursuing P.L. Travers to acquire the film rights for Mary Poppins. He purchased the rights for Peter Pan from the Great Ormond Street Hospital, to whom J.M. Barrie had left them in 1939. He wanted Alice in the Wonderland starting in the 1920s, eventually securing the rights for the 1951 feature.
Nah mate, it wasn’t that one idea that was “harsh.” Just the way I perceived you to deliver it, overall. Like it had really touched a nerve.
@mentaledge@sopuli.xyz,
Eh, I’m sorry if I’ve been an uncomprehending arse upon these convos. I would say that both of us got our ‘danders-riled’ so to speak. Which of course, happens sometimes.
The reality? This is a complicated discussion, from any number of angles, and let me say again that I greatly appreciate your work upon the Moomin project. I am proud to list it on my community’s sidebar, if you’re still okay with that.
IMO you’re a great community leader, commenter and poster to me, and I’m sorry we seemed to clash so much (haha, out of nowhere, almost), but again, I suppose that opinionated minds will sometimes do that…?
Geez, where did I do that? I think you’re projecting a bit there, mate.
I think that’s a fair argument, but not something he personally wanted. More accurate I think is to consider it more a feature of capitalism and late-stage capitalism, which eventually becomes a pitiless tyrant IMO. I know of no real evidence that Walt really wanted that.
Again, to me that’s just an over-the-top reaction about the loving care (and harsh-ish discipline) he applied to all major projects under his supervision. He absolutely busted arse (and others’ arses) to pay tribute to the creators… to make their stuff shine, if not to tell their stories exactly in original form. But that’s not how cinema ever worked, anyway.
You then also proceeded to suggest that Tove’s real reason for refusing him, was not being interested in working “that hard” to realize her vision.
And when did I say that, matey?
A ‘maybe’ (IMO) is an implication that a person is exploring an idea of something, just like putting an idea out there to see how it floats. In any case, in no shape, or way did I do the following:
Not what I said at all, mate.
That is hardly an outrageous paraphrasing. The reason I used it was illustrate a fairly obvious adverse interpretation of what you wrote, which you probably missed.
Yes. A “suggestion” if you will.
So, end of the day… you’re trying to scorch me for proposing an idea…?
Were lightly toasting each other, at most.
You felt that pointing out Walt Disney’s more industrious methods around art was on the strong side. You also went on to dismiss this as the reason Tove would have been uninterested in working with Disney, and instead floated the idea that Disney was too much of a “hassle” for her.
I reinforced my view on the first and added why the second was a pretty tactless take.
At this point you assumed I held a bunch of positions I don’t, to which I replied with a correction.
After that you’ve pretty much just been splitting hairs on my actual position.
To you, being normal “for the time” is an excuse. To me, it is not.
Excellent point. Yeah, you may be right.
See earlier post.
He thought art could be bought and sold like stocks.
Or more importantly, that it should be.
Again, are you saying that is not the case?
Shit, is that right?
I’d certainly not known that, if so. Source?
He acquired the film rights for Winnie the Pooh from the authors widow. He spent 20 years pursuing P.L. Travers to acquire the film rights for Mary Poppins. He purchased the rights for Peter Pan from the Great Ormond Street Hospital, to whom J.M. Barrie had left them in 1939. He wanted Alice in the Wonderland starting in the 1920s, eventually securing the rights for the 1951 feature.
And he tried to buy out Tove.
And is it not, that’s how the IP process works?
Either via licensing or acquisition…?
Oh.
You’re misunderstanding me again.
I’m saying that Walt was not only ok with this being how it works, but that it is how art should work.
WHY are you weirdly pinning that on Walt, something which was and became reinforced as standard practice? (and again, you without a source)
Or you’re misunderstanding what you perceive as my point? That might just as well be a “you” thing, buster.
I’m not, really?
I’m stating it as the reason why someone like Tove would never work with him.
And for some reason you considered that “harsh”.
Nah mate, it wasn’t that one idea that was “harsh.” Just the way I perceived you to deliver it, overall. Like it had really touched a nerve.
@mentaledge@sopuli.xyz,
Eh, I’m sorry if I’ve been an uncomprehending arse upon these convos. I would say that both of us got our ‘danders-riled’ so to speak. Which of course, happens sometimes.
The reality? This is a complicated discussion, from any number of angles, and let me say again that I greatly appreciate your work upon the Moomin project. I am proud to list it on my community’s sidebar, if you’re still okay with that.
IMO you’re a great community leader, commenter and poster to me, and I’m sorry we seemed to clash so much (haha, out of nowhere, almost), but again, I suppose that opinionated minds will sometimes do that…?