I understood what you meant. No misunderstanding there. I do not think teens under 18 should be handling a lethal weapon. Matter fact it should be over 21. My opinion. 🤷♂️
I do not think teens under 18 should be handling a lethal weapon. Matter fact it should be over 21.
Cars are a lethal weapon, but they’re allowed to drive on public roads under supervision before they’re 16, and can drive without on private property. Kids under 18 are allowed access to cooking knives at whatever age, and should be taught how to cook before they’re adults. Teaching kids safe firearm operation under supervision is useful. Not only that, sharing hobbies with parents help with communication and bonding, giving the kids a better support structure while growing up.
Your black-and-white mindset of infantilizing teens like they’re completely incapable of handling anything before they’re 18 is demeaning and ultimately damaging to society as a whole. It leads to adults who’ve never learned skills they need to survive on their own.
I personally think there’s a distinction to be made between cooking knives, cars, and guns. I understand all that about cars and knives being lethal weapons too, but it’s about how easy it is to make a mistake, and HOW DETRIMENTAL it might be. And it’s about at which age you are capable of fully understanding every aspect of handling each thing, and the risks that come with it.
You could make the same argument about piloting an airplane. Statistically, being in an accident in an airplane is far, far less likely than being in one in a car. But if you are in a plane accident, the chances of it being lethal to everyone involved is far greater than accidents in a car, statistically, surely. Nobody freaking survives a plane crash. Sometimes everyone perishes even it if happens before takeoff. That’s why you don’t see 18 year old pilots of passenger airplanes, let alone 16 year old pilots.
Knives are much easier to monitor and control by the supervising adult, so kids can learn handling them safely. Making a mistake is rarely lethal with a knife, especially since a lot of kids’ knives aren’t even very sharp.
My country does gun law pretty well, IMO:
Gun ownership in Sweden is regulated by Vapenlagen 1996:67 (literally, The Weapon Law), modified by weapon decree Vapenförordningen 1996:70 and FAP 551-3 / RPSFS 2009:13. The police issue licenses to persons older than 18 years in good standing on the “need to have” basis, which generally implies either hunting or sport shooting. Passing a hunting examination or membership in an approved sport shooting club for six months is required. Sport shooting licenses must be renewed every 5 years, whereas hunting licenses are valid for the lifetime of the holder. License-holders may lend a weapon to a person at least 15 years of age for supervised use.
This is exactly what I feel is appropriate. You’re not allowed to have a driver’s license until you’re 18 either… 🤷♂️ And not allowed to purchase strong alcohol until 21, just like America. Should alcohol also be allowed to children perhaps? Like I said, it’s not about learning, it’s about being capable of determining risk and making judgement calls, etc.
I didn’t say teenagers shouldn’t be able to learn. But having their own guns is not an option IMO. They can borrow in very controlled circumstances.
I don’t have a black-and-white mindset about it, just like you don’t. But it’s good to have rules of thumb because society can’t be run on a case-by-case basis. And that’s what I’ll say about it.
I didn’t say teenagers shouldn’t be able to learn. But having their own guns is not an option IMO. They can borrow in very controlled circumstances.
Then why did you go after me for pointing out that some parents teach their kids how to hunt? That’s literally what you’re claiming to not be against.
And not allowed to purchase strong alcohol until 21, just like America.
No, not like in the US. Here, you can’t get any alcohol under 21. That’s the source of the taboo. High school students love to get older siblings and crappy parents to supply them with way too much alcohol and regularly host giant parties where they drink to the point of passing out or vomiting, and often drive drunk afterwards.
Thankfully for me, my parents took the European route, and let me have a beer with dinner on occasion, and that’s it. It also helps that I don’t like loud crowded parties so I rarely attended and generally left after a few minutes.
Knives are much easier to monitor and control by the supervising adult
Not really. A student can just go buy a knife from the local store or steal one from the kitchen outside of meal prep. If they wanted to, they could acquire one and shank someone without their parents knowing. Meanwhile in the US, a teen’s main option for getting a gun trying to convince Uncle Cleatus to illegally sell them one, which he generally won’t do because that’s a felony with a 10 year sentence (though admittedly this was different 15-20 years ago).
But if you are in a plane accident, the chances of it being lethal to everyone involved is far greater than accidents in a car, statistically, surely. Nobody freaking survives a plane crash.
Your example doesn’t fit very well. A plane crash will kill everyone, regardless if it’s deliberate or a mistake. And it’s very easy to mess up when piloting a plane.
A negligent discharge from a firearm is 1: not guaranteed to hit someone, 2: not guaranteed to kill someone, and 3: is going to be isolated to a single shot. You don’t have guns spontaneously firing in all directions. Not only that, the 4 core rules of gun safety are very effective at protecting everyone in the general vicinity of a firearm, and they aren’t difficult to teach and learn.
The main concern with minors having access to firearms is deliberate attempts at violence. I don’t think I need to go into detail on why that’s a larger problem for teens, but that’s prevented by 1: keeping the guns in a safe that the kids/teens can’t get in to, and 2: being good parents that communicate and support their kids.
Now I’m not one to say “everyone should have a gun” because that’d be fucking stupid. If you (or someone in your house) are depressed or you’re a shitty parent then you shouldn’t have a gun because it’s just asking for trouble. But a lot of people build guns up in their head as some giant boogeyman that will go off on its own and murder everyone in the room like a rabid bear.
And don’t get me started on a rant about the left’s insistence on gun control and disarming themselves is contributing the the fascist takeover currently going on in the US.
Then why did you go after me for pointing out that some parents teach their kids how to hunt? That’s literally what you’re claiming to not be against.
I am neither “going after you” (separate yourself from your argument, I’m not attacking you), nor am I against teaching your children to hunt. What I wouldn’t support would be kids carrying their own weapons like that. They should be handed a weapon when it comes time to pull the trigger perhaps, but not carry around their own loaded rifle or sidearm. That’s too dangerous, in the general sense, in my opinion.
So that’s basically what I reacted to from the very beginning. So if you didn’t mean that, this whole discussion has probably been moot.
I understood what you meant. No misunderstanding there. I do not think teens under 18 should be handling a lethal weapon. Matter fact it should be over 21. My opinion. 🤷♂️
Cars are a lethal weapon, but they’re allowed to drive on public roads under supervision before they’re 16, and can drive without on private property. Kids under 18 are allowed access to cooking knives at whatever age, and should be taught how to cook before they’re adults. Teaching kids safe firearm operation under supervision is useful. Not only that, sharing hobbies with parents help with communication and bonding, giving the kids a better support structure while growing up.
Your black-and-white mindset of infantilizing teens like they’re completely incapable of handling anything before they’re 18 is demeaning and ultimately damaging to society as a whole. It leads to adults who’ve never learned skills they need to survive on their own.
I personally think there’s a distinction to be made between cooking knives, cars, and guns. I understand all that about cars and knives being lethal weapons too, but it’s about how easy it is to make a mistake, and HOW DETRIMENTAL it might be. And it’s about at which age you are capable of fully understanding every aspect of handling each thing, and the risks that come with it.
You could make the same argument about piloting an airplane. Statistically, being in an accident in an airplane is far, far less likely than being in one in a car. But if you are in a plane accident, the chances of it being lethal to everyone involved is far greater than accidents in a car, statistically, surely. Nobody freaking survives a plane crash. Sometimes everyone perishes even it if happens before takeoff. That’s why you don’t see 18 year old pilots of passenger airplanes, let alone 16 year old pilots.
Knives are much easier to monitor and control by the supervising adult, so kids can learn handling them safely. Making a mistake is rarely lethal with a knife, especially since a lot of kids’ knives aren’t even very sharp.
My country does gun law pretty well, IMO:
This is exactly what I feel is appropriate. You’re not allowed to have a driver’s license until you’re 18 either… 🤷♂️ And not allowed to purchase strong alcohol until 21, just like America. Should alcohol also be allowed to children perhaps? Like I said, it’s not about learning, it’s about being capable of determining risk and making judgement calls, etc.
I didn’t say teenagers shouldn’t be able to learn. But having their own guns is not an option IMO. They can borrow in very controlled circumstances.
I don’t have a black-and-white mindset about it, just like you don’t. But it’s good to have rules of thumb because society can’t be run on a case-by-case basis. And that’s what I’ll say about it.
Then why did you go after me for pointing out that some parents teach their kids how to hunt? That’s literally what you’re claiming to not be against.
No, not like in the US. Here, you can’t get any alcohol under 21. That’s the source of the taboo. High school students love to get older siblings and crappy parents to supply them with way too much alcohol and regularly host giant parties where they drink to the point of passing out or vomiting, and often drive drunk afterwards.
Thankfully for me, my parents took the European route, and let me have a beer with dinner on occasion, and that’s it. It also helps that I don’t like loud crowded parties so I rarely attended and generally left after a few minutes.
Not really. A student can just go buy a knife from the local store or steal one from the kitchen outside of meal prep. If they wanted to, they could acquire one and shank someone without their parents knowing. Meanwhile in the US, a teen’s main option for getting a gun trying to convince Uncle Cleatus to illegally sell them one, which he generally won’t do because that’s a felony with a 10 year sentence (though admittedly this was different 15-20 years ago).
Your example doesn’t fit very well. A plane crash will kill everyone, regardless if it’s deliberate or a mistake. And it’s very easy to mess up when piloting a plane.
A negligent discharge from a firearm is 1: not guaranteed to hit someone, 2: not guaranteed to kill someone, and 3: is going to be isolated to a single shot. You don’t have guns spontaneously firing in all directions. Not only that, the 4 core rules of gun safety are very effective at protecting everyone in the general vicinity of a firearm, and they aren’t difficult to teach and learn.
The main concern with minors having access to firearms is deliberate attempts at violence. I don’t think I need to go into detail on why that’s a larger problem for teens, but that’s prevented by 1: keeping the guns in a safe that the kids/teens can’t get in to, and 2: being good parents that communicate and support their kids.
Now I’m not one to say “everyone should have a gun” because that’d be fucking stupid. If you (or someone in your house) are depressed or you’re a shitty parent then you shouldn’t have a gun because it’s just asking for trouble. But a lot of people build guns up in their head as some giant boogeyman that will go off on its own and murder everyone in the room like a rabid bear.
And don’t get me started on a rant about the left’s insistence on gun control and disarming themselves is contributing the the fascist takeover currently going on in the US.
I am neither “going after you” (separate yourself from your argument, I’m not attacking you), nor am I against teaching your children to hunt. What I wouldn’t support would be kids carrying their own weapons like that. They should be handed a weapon when it comes time to pull the trigger perhaps, but not carry around their own loaded rifle or sidearm. That’s too dangerous, in the general sense, in my opinion.
So that’s basically what I reacted to from the very beginning. So if you didn’t mean that, this whole discussion has probably been moot.