Too many tankies. All of them saying people shouldn’t vote, while offering no solution and celebrating Russia as a good country.

  • t3rmit3@beehaw.org
    123·
    15 hours ago

    Look, I dislike tankies as much as the next anarchist, but I don’t know if lemmy.ml is bad enough to need defederation from. Once you learn their shtick, it’s easy to ignore their more dogmatic users. Part of “bee-ing nice” cannot just mean “build smaller and smaller fences until no one you think isn’t nice can be seen anymore”. We also have our own propaganda to deal with here, including the “vote blue no matter who” brigade that disappear the moment elections are over. You can block them yourself if you don’t want to see their posts, but my vote for defed’ing would be ‘no’.

    • aldhissla@piefed.worldEnglish
      310·
      14 hours ago

      Now try substituting your references to tankies with nazis. Would you talk coffee with someone showing as jewgasser88@hitlerfan.nazi? Would you argue against defederating from them using the same arguments?

      • t3rmit3@beehaw.org
        51·
        3 hours ago

        No, and my other comment below addressed this, so I’ll copy the relevant portions:

        When you’re talking about toxicity, there are a couple different areas that manifests in written content. One is toxic behavior, i.e. how you convey your ideas, and another is what you say, i.e. the ideas themselves.

        Moderating out toxic behavior is much easier, in that someone being actively rude or advocating direct harm or prejudice is often fairly cut-and-dry. Moderating out toxic beliefs is much harder, because that requires setting a baseline of what constitute a toxic belief in the first place (and even beyond that, an unacceptable to express toxic belief).

        Nazism and other rightwing “belief systems” have harming others at the core of their structures. As misguided as it is, Marxist-Leninism doesn’t. I think that’s at least a clear enough line to draw in my mind for why they merit different treatment.

        Your hypothetical kind of proves my point, even, because what hypothetical username would be the tankie equivalent of

        CW

        “jewgasser”

        ?

        One of the most annoying parts of dealing with tankies is their refusal to admit any of the USSR’s crimes, which is the dead opposite of Nazis who revel in the crimes of Hitler. One ideology (tankies/ MLs) considers the actions wrong, so they pretend they didn’t happen. The other ideology considers the actions right, so they flaunt them.

        • A_be_seedy@beehaw.orgOP
          2·
          11 hours ago

          Here’s a commonly cited wiki site on Lemmy.ml and its about page:

          https://web.archive.org/web/20220805151259/https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/ProleWiki:Principles

          The moderation and userbase celebrates Putin due to his defiance of NATO. Of course, theyre not consistent in their beliefs, because if they felt NATO was such a threat, then they would be celebrating Trump for doing more to hurt NATO than any other individual in NATO’s history.

          • t3rmit3@beehaw.org
            3·
            11 hours ago

            That did not address my question. I don’t like Putin; he is attacking Ukraine. I don’t like Biden; he supplied Israel’s genocide of Palestinians. Neither of them are intrinsic to their respective ideologies.

            Of course, theyre not consistent in their beliefs, because if they felt NATO was such a threat, then they would be celebrating Trump for doing more to hurt NATO than any other individual in NATO’s history.

            This is a silly argument. Trump is not hurting NATO because he believes it’s a Western Imperialism power projection tool like they do, he’s hurting it because it did not kowtow to his demands. He is a capitalist authoritarian, and they’re anti-capitalist.

            • A_be_seedy@beehaw.orgOP
              1·
              11 hours ago

              It absolutely didn’t answer your question, it was a response to the wrong comment.

              If NATO kowtowed to his demands it would have also been significantly weakened.

              • t3rmit3@beehaw.org
                1·
                10 hours ago

                If NATO kowtowed to his demands it would have also been significantly weakened.

                I’m not quite sure what this is responding to either; my point was that disliking NATO because you view it as a capitalist project, and also disliking an authoritarian capitalist who wants to control it, are consistent beliefs.