Yes, and I’m very glad we have a social safety net. But that wouldn’t be available if everyone just figured they didn’t want to work and had a right to food and shelter without contributing.
I don’t think you understand what I am saying. Human beings, as a group, are not just going to stop working just because the coercion of starvation and homelessness no longer exist. Human beings ache for purpose and community can provide that. People don’t hate labor, they hate being forced to labor for next to nothing in return. What you view as human laziness is better explained by alienation and hopelessness.
I work. I’m lazy. I wouldn’t work if I didn’t get paid and didn’t need to get paid. I would still do stuff, but not what other people wanted / needed. Money helps regulate what’s important in society to work on. Don’t get me wrong, the current system in the U.S. especially is completely fucked. But trading work for standard value units isn’t a bad way to organize things.
You’re right that it isn’t a “bad” way but it isn’t the only way nor is it the best way. In a socialist society your lack of labor would be a concern to other people. They’d ask questions like, “why aren’t you contributing”, “is something wrong/is your mental health okay”, and “why are we working so hard to provide for you when, despite being able bodied, you refuse to help provide for us all?” Some people would be immune to this social pressure sure but I argue that the majority of people aren’t. Besides, in a socialist society the amount of labor required of humanity would be reduced with time. Those socially useless endeavors would be encouraged as long as they aren’t harmful to the rest of us. I think you feel the way you do because you don’t have a sense of duty to your community as a result of your community either not supporting you or not even existing.
I would love to see that utopia, and while I certainly do have a sense of duty to my community, I can’t see even myself working as hard if I didn’t need to. I also think high tech would suffer without a drive to innovate and put it together on a larger project.
The soviets took a (in their own words) backwards feudal society to space in 40 years. Lack of innovation my ass. Anyway the goal would be for you to not work as hard yeah. A lot of our labor is wasted making other people rich instead of caring for the world and eachother. It wouldn’t be a utopia either, other contradictions would arise and there would be new problems for us to solve. Utopias don’t exist but we can make the world a better place
Sounds great until everyone wants a free ride, then there’s no one left to peddle.
Fortunately that is not how people or societies function
Yes, and I’m very glad we have a social safety net. But that wouldn’t be available if everyone just figured they didn’t want to work and had a right to food and shelter without contributing.
I don’t think you understand what I am saying. Human beings, as a group, are not just going to stop working just because the coercion of starvation and homelessness no longer exist. Human beings ache for purpose and community can provide that. People don’t hate labor, they hate being forced to labor for next to nothing in return. What you view as human laziness is better explained by alienation and hopelessness.
I work. I’m lazy. I wouldn’t work if I didn’t get paid and didn’t need to get paid. I would still do stuff, but not what other people wanted / needed. Money helps regulate what’s important in society to work on. Don’t get me wrong, the current system in the U.S. especially is completely fucked. But trading work for standard value units isn’t a bad way to organize things.
You’re right that it isn’t a “bad” way but it isn’t the only way nor is it the best way. In a socialist society your lack of labor would be a concern to other people. They’d ask questions like, “why aren’t you contributing”, “is something wrong/is your mental health okay”, and “why are we working so hard to provide for you when, despite being able bodied, you refuse to help provide for us all?” Some people would be immune to this social pressure sure but I argue that the majority of people aren’t. Besides, in a socialist society the amount of labor required of humanity would be reduced with time. Those socially useless endeavors would be encouraged as long as they aren’t harmful to the rest of us. I think you feel the way you do because you don’t have a sense of duty to your community as a result of your community either not supporting you or not even existing.
I would love to see that utopia, and while I certainly do have a sense of duty to my community, I can’t see even myself working as hard if I didn’t need to. I also think high tech would suffer without a drive to innovate and put it together on a larger project.
The soviets took a (in their own words) backwards feudal society to space in 40 years. Lack of innovation my ass. Anyway the goal would be for you to not work as hard yeah. A lot of our labor is wasted making other people rich instead of caring for the world and eachother. It wouldn’t be a utopia either, other contradictions would arise and there would be new problems for us to solve. Utopias don’t exist but we can make the world a better place