• 𝙈𝙞𝙖@quokk.au
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    7
    ·
    16 days ago

    Twice in this thread you’ve pushed the socialisation and biology angle about womanhood. It’s upsetting to see.

    • isleepinahammock@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      16 days ago

      Eh. Trans women can be biologically female and socialized female. I would argue that if your hormones are estrogen-dominated, and have been for a prolonged period, than you’re biologically more female than male. And if you live as a woman, out and open in the world, being seen and read as female by the people you meet? What you’re experiencing IS female socialization. Socialization is not something unique to children. Anyone read by strangers as female will experience female socialization.

      • 𝙈𝙞𝙖@quokk.au
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        16 days ago

        That you are using these definitions to define womanhood when they are the two most frequently used to discredit mine.

        You are not a woman because of your sex, nor are you a woman because of what society told you to be/do growing up.

        • velma@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          16 days ago

          We are talking about women’s roles as protectors. Context matters.

          I am not saying that those criteria define women.

        • isleepinahammock@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          16 days ago

          Who says you can’t change your sex? I for one think it’s perfectly possible to do so. Sure, some people like to latch onto a chromosomal definition. But people latch onto that simply because it’s the one option that allows them to nearly-universally exclude trans people.

    • Wren@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      16 days ago

      Gender is a social construct, one that should be challenged at every turn, but it has a huge impact on upbringing and how people treat someone, socially

      And, most women are assigned female at birth. Not all women — most. How a body works will influence the kind of person someone becomes. It’s an important field of research that lagged behind men’s health for centuries. Only recently have we begun to catch up.

      No one here is saying there are specific social and biological markers that need to be met to be a woman, but that being a woman often comes with being socialized differently from men and having a different physiology.

      • velma@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        16 days ago

        Ngl, my heart hurts from this conversation. I try to step really carefully with my words and make sure no one is intentionally excluded or othered with my comments here. I was enjoying the offshoot topics that were developing as well.

        Ah well.

        • Wren@lemmy.today
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          16 days ago

          There’s always someone who thinks you hate waffles just because you like pancakes.

          • velma@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            edit-2
            16 days ago

            True that lol

            Not that it matters, but I’ve had my own struggles with my gender and dysmorphia. It just so happened that I had posted about it in another community right before these comments were made to me. That doesn’t make me immune from saying the wrong thing sometimes, but my intent has never been to exclude trans people. We are on the same side, we are allies.